Well, what should have taken 2 hours took 4 hours, but the water/alcohol injection is back in the Ranger in a new location. Works great and I'm maxing out at 12 pounds of boost with the MP112 with no detonation. I have the Hobbs switch at 4 pounds, but it is probably coming in a little too early. However, when summer comes it should be right on. Pulls strong and steady and transitions from vacuum to boost to water/alcohol injection with no stumble or lag. Looks like next weekend is hopefully dyno weekend.

A couple of pictures ...

http://groups.msn.com/BrianandJuneAnnMcKelvey/wateralcoholinjection.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=109

http://groups.msn.com/BrianandJuneAnnMcKelvey/wateralcoholinjection.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=108

brian,
which water/ alcohol injection are you using .... or did you make it yourself

I made my own setup. I use a 0.024 NOS jet and an aftermarket high pressure fuel pump (95 PSI) with a Shelby Solenoid. The reservoir is just a standard windshield washer reservoir with a "Low Level" warning light. The Hobbs switch is from CarQuest and I have a few different ones (4#, 6#, etc).

what is a hobbs switch?


curt

Originally posted by 98blownranger
what is a hobbs switch?

It is a boost sensitive switch that you can use to close a circuit based on a pre-set or variable level of pressure. The switch usually mounts on the intake manifold. At a certain setting, the pressure in the manifold causes the Hobbs switch to close a circuit and turns on a device (usually through a relay) like a fuel pump, solenoid, light, etc.

They are available from most automotive stores and can be had as normally open, normally closed, fixed pressure or variable pressure.

Brian,

Looks great! What size hose is the supply line and if it wouldn't be to much trouble, could you do a list with a break down of the parts, price and where you obtained them from. Maybe one of the gurus will make it a sticky.

I have always planned on doing this once I get the engine bay done, but the kit I was looking at was 300 I think... i may just have to make my own.

curt

Originally posted by FM53
...could you do a list with a break down of the parts, price and where you obtained them from. Maybe one of the gurus will make it a sticky.

The parts were:
- HP pump , Autozone ’88 Ford 150 ½ ton 302 FI ($80.00) OK for use with Acohol.
- Solenoid valve from http://www.mcmaster.com/ Part # 7876K12 ($35.00) The one I use is a Shelby Racing one that was $50.00 but this item is identical
- 0.024 NOS jet from SECO ($6.00)
- The hose I use is from CarQuest and it is special plastic high pressure 1/4 brake line that is $0.40 a foot.
- A Hobbs switch. I have a couple different ones, but if I was going to buy one I'd probably go for the adjustable one, however it is around $45.00! So I use a 4# one from CarQuest and it was like $25.00, but you can find cheaper ones.
- Bunch of brass fittings, maybe $15.00 (CarQuest)
- Relay came from a bunch I just grabbed from the wreckers, no charge.
- Windshield washer reservoir from Wreckers with low level indicator $10.00 (Came out of an Explorer)
- Some wiring and connectors.

Around $170 max to build your own setup.

so for normal daily driving how long does the water mix last?

It would all depend on how often you got on it. Since it doesn't start injecting until 6lbs of boost it could last a long time if you never went that high. For example, we had a nice day on Monday and the streets were fairly dry, so I decided to drive the truck. Drove it all day for work and put on just a hair under 90 miles and it never went above 5 lbs of boost the whole day.

The water injection setup looks really nice! You wouldn't be going over to Doug's for that dyno would you??? :E

For normal driving a gallon gallon reservoir will last forever because my Hobbs switch is set to 4# of boost and if you drive normal you will never get into boost. However, for normal driving for someone with a slightly heavy foot that gets over 4# of boosts on a 'reasonable' basis , probably a gas tank full. I spent a lot of this morning under boost 90% of the time and used the better part of a gallon (about 30/70 alcohol/water mix) through 1/2 a tank of gas.

So the answer is ... "it depends"

One thing I did find out is I think I'm a little large on the jet size with the new water/alcohol pump. So I'm going to back off to about a 0.020" jet and maybe even go smaller. It will depend on the dyno verification.

I spent a lot of time this morning out on some back roads really hammering the system now that I have the water/alcohol setup in place and no detonation. I think the stock injectors (and maybe the fuel pump) are reaching their limit at something over 10# of boost. I have been over 12# a few times and at that point it starts to surge. So on a stock Ranger SOHC it looks like 10-11# of boost is workable. But again, the dyno will tell.

I now have 350 miles on the supercharger setup and it is great.

Originally posted by Wed Turner
You wouldn't be going over to Doug's for that dyno would you??? :E

Well, I need somebody elses opinion on my setup ... now I wonder who knows the 4.0 inside out, Has done a bunch of supercharging, would be knowledgeable, expect miracles, and is less than 1 1/2 hours away .... HHHhhhuuummmm

Originally posted by Brian Mckelvey
I have been over 12# a few times and at that point it starts to surge. So on a stock Ranger SOHC it looks like 10-11# of boost is workable. But again, the dyno will tell.


Stock Ranger? explain...how else is yours modified? Just want to know what I'm looking forward to when everything is ready.

My 2003 has not had any engine modifications. All I have added is an Apten chip and a K&N filter in the air box which I have opened the side up to draw cool air from in front of the rad support.

I have NOT done anything like changed MAF, TB or Injectors !!!!

Man, I cant wait to see that dyno result. What numbers are you hoping/estimating your going to get?

You should take vids while your on the dyno :drunk: . That would be awesome.

AH OK Brian, so I did do those, the MAF, K&N Intake, AIRAID TB Spacer....no chip yet...waiting for the supercharger and/or Superchips programmer.

Keep us updated...thanks

Apten has the programmers now. :)

Doug904.

REALLY? awesome

I just went on to the Apten forum and their site and nothing was said about having a programmer...they have the chips, but not the programmer....just wondering where U got your info.

Apten Programmers

http://www.rangerpowersports.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114642

ah ok...thanks....guess I didn't look hard enough, HAHA

ah that's why I didn't find it...it wasn't in their forum, it was in general tech

Getting back on topic ........ The dyno run yesterday proved the effectiveness of a water injection setup.

We made a run without the water injection and at the higher boost, RPM and lean fuel it detonated like crazy. With the water injection hooked back up the detonation disappeared.

I just used water, no alcohol, and it totally eliminated detonation. If I had brought some alcohol it would have helped improve the A/F and I'm sure the HP numbers, but I forgot the can of alcohol. However, my objective is to have the A/F right on so I was not really concerned about that.

Just Isopropyl when you refer to alcohol?

I buy the gallon containers of denatured alcohol from Lowes or any other paint/hardware stores. It is cheap and readily available. Actually, if the A/F is right all you need the alcohol for is to keep the water from freezing. In my case, because I had not had a chance before to put it on a Dyno I was compensating for what I knew was a probably lean mixture from Ford. Isopropyl will work fine as well.

Awesome Brian...can't wait to see 'final'numbers with optimal boost, injectors, etc.
Lookin forward to this.

Any word from Brian? Dying to hear what the stock SOHC will do so I can know what to plan for with modified internals and more boost.:nuts:
Jesse

Originally posted by Orion_134
Any word from Brian? Dying to hear what the stock SOHC will do so I can know what to plan for with modified internals and more boost.:nuts:
Jesse

He's out of country for a while with his job - won't be any more updates untill he gets back.............

Where is this guy (Brian) ? I need to know the outcome of this?

Does anyone know where he wired that low level warning light into? I was considering doing it into my dash using possibly the 4x4 light, being that mine isn't 4x4, I don't need it. Anyone got a clue?

Jesse

He's out of the country right now...on business I think...so until he gets back we're SOL...unless someone else can come up with the ways to do it, etc.

Ok I'm kinda green on the hole water/alcohol setup... Can you explain what the point of this is? I cought something about eliminating detonation.... Thanks, RJ68

The main function of these systems
is to suppress detonation caused by
high temperature and pressure developed
within the combustion chamber when
the effective compression ratio has
been taken beyond the auto-ignition point
by either a turbo or a supercharger.
Water, with its high latent heat content,
is extremely effective for controlling
not only the onset of detonation but also the
production of oxides of nitrogen in
the modern leanburn engines.


info stolen from here

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/




http://www.dawesdevices.com/water.html
another how to



http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/WaterInjection.html
some more info



http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html
a lil history of water injection a few sales pitches

mostly good info worth a read with a nice turbo pic at the bottom next to a water injection calculator




http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbo/waterturbo.jpg

thanks for the info..that answered alot of my questions!

Been looking but can not find the formula to determine the amount of water/alcohol to air for the 4.0 SOHC, when using a supercharger. Also info that compares jet size in decimal to gallons per hour.

Been looking but can not find the formula to determine the amount of water/alcohol to air for the 4.0 SOHC, when using a supercharger. Also info that compares jet size in decimal to gallons per hour.
After posting this I found this link and it answers a lot of my questions: http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.htmlBlhde - Had posted this link and others earlier "Guess I overlooked it"

I got mine on ebay under 200.00 Snow Performance injection kit came with every thing you need, I am finishing a install tomorow all thats left is the wiring and the test, Ill take pics and add to my gallery for all that want to see recent pics under the hoodhttp://www.rangerpowersports.com/gallery/data/500/Engine2.JPG

Awesome, So I guess the M90 is basically for low boost or 3.0s and the M112 is for higher boost or 4.0s? One of these days I would love to boost my truck but it will never happen, too much stuff to do with money I don't have yet, lol.

I got mine on ebay under 200.00 Snow Performance injection kit came with every thing you need, I am finishing a install tomorow all thats left is the wiring and the test, Ill take pics and add to my gallery for all that want to see recent pics under the hoodhttp://www.rangerpowersports.com/gallery/data/500/Engine2.JPG

damn u finaly joined the forum uh? I met u at the towers meet in Ft. lauderdale. the day I met u I had my blower and manifold kit in my mom's trunk, I was picking up my xcalibrator.
u have a nice setup.

Hey basa, Hate to say it in my old age I dont remember so well in a positive note, I do recall meeting a few ranger guys at Towers all were cool and enjoyed meeting so you were one of them, too bad we didnt get a chance to cruize together before I moved, any way back to thread I completed install settling with a 175 nozzle going on at two lbs of boost using cheap window wash fluid(short notice thats all I can get)were I am sure it must be cooling but dont notice any performance difference.
I will take pics today and post soon.
http://www.rangerpowersports.com/gallery/data/500/Engine_1_.JPG

Well, what should have taken 2 hours took 4 hours, but the water/alcohol injection is back in the Ranger in a new location. Works great and I'm maxing out at 12 pounds of boost with the MP112 with no detonation. I have the Hobbs switch at 4 pounds, but it is probably coming in a little too early. However, when summer comes it should be right on. Pulls strong and steady and transitions from vacuum to boost to water/alcohol injection with no stumble or lag. Looks like next weekend is hopefully dyno weekend.

A couple of pictures ...

http://groups.msn.com/BrianandJuneAnnMcKelvey/wateralcoholinjection.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=109

http://groups.msn.com/BrianandJuneAnnMcKelvey/wateralcoholinjection.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=108


How in the world can your 4.0 handle 12 pounds of boost? What have you done to it?

How in the world can your 4.0 handle 12 pounds of boost? What have you done to it?
not like this is something from another world buddy. a bunch of us ran or r running that on a stock motor, just gotta make sure ur tune is good. BUT it will blow sometime lol

can I get some pictures of this setup. I want to do a identical setup after doing some thinking.

snowperformance.net

heres another place.i bought mine from them,an im happy with it.
an you also get the controler with the kit an a fluid control solenoid. http://www.labontemotorsports.com/store/ccp0-catshow/injectionSystems.html