Evening all,

I just got back from the track, I ran a best of 15.882 at 88 mph.

Previously I ran a 15.556 with a JBA headers, Gibson exhaust, 75MM Pro-M MAF, Apten tune and K&N FIPK. I upgraded to the EE Eaton supercharger kit and an 80mm Mustang MAF and I am now running slower, a best of 15.882 :( .

I have no idea what is wrong. I don't know if headers, exhaust, MAF and Apten chip got me to the same place I am (actually worse off) than with the EE blower kit, 80mm Mustang MAF and Dougs EE tune for 94 octane, but I cannot believe I am not in the 14's with all this money and effort spent.

Tonight was a cool night with 68º and the relative humidity of 50.

My 60' time was 2.421. My truck pulls hard at 4000 RPM, but really bogs off the line until I hit 4K RPM.

Could my stock rear end of 3.55 LS really be hurting me that bad? I have tires that are 2" larger than stock (29.5 on 17" rims). I have been considering going to a 4.10 rear end, but at this point I am wondering if I am throwing good money after bad, as in, should I have swapped in a 5.0 from an Explorer and gone from there rather than now changing my rear end.

Any help would be greatly appricated!

Thanks,

David

i dont think swapping a 5.0 would have gotten you much better in an extended cab, 4x4 (?) ranger. up the boost, and octane and for god sake get some traction :)

Did you have the taller tires when you ran the better times? You're running the equivalent of 3.30's now, so it's not helping you any.

Got to be something else wrong though, it should have run at least as good as before even with the taller tires.

try going back to your smaller MAF. in the past i have had similar problems with some of my mustangs

I was running the same tires last year, so that cannot be part of it.

I am running 94 octane.

My truck is not a 4x4.

My Stewart Warner boost gauge shows me to only be having about 4lbs of boost :(.

David.

Obviously something is incorrect either in your a/f or spark tables, or both. The 4# of boost doens't seem out of line with the size of the head unit on that EE blower. But you should still be realizing more overall power then prior to the install, especially at the lower end. Contact Doug or EE. I'm sure they will figure it out. I take it you don't have any means of logging your STFT's or other data to determine where that is at.

Your 60ft time is pretty horrible. What kind of 60ft times were you getting on your 15.6 pass? If you were spinning or bogging it off the line it's going to have a huge impact on your overall times. A .1 difference in your 50 ft time will equal a .15 difference at the large end of the track. I've even heard some people say that .1 difference in 60ft equats to .2 difference at the far end of the track. So you can see where it makes a big deal.

Also if you have a chance, try to get that thing on a dyno with a wideband O2 sensor on it. you might be able to pick up some power with a little more tweeking.

shouldnt you be hitting 6 lbs with that kit? are you getting belt slippage off the tensioner?

How much vacuum are you pulling at idle? Have you checked it for leaks?

Don't worry yourself too much, just sounds like you have a few bugs to work out. I'm sure that with the help of Doug and Explorer Express you'll find the solution to your issues.

What was the mph difference from your previous best?

Trev

What was the mph difference from your previous best?

OH yeah, good call! Also, if you get a chance, weigh the truck. I know my truck weight will vary maybe 50lbs or so depending on gas and what all I take out before I go to the track. All these things might sound minor but they can all add up to make a HUGE difference.

Your MPH will actually be a much better indicator of power than your 1/4 times.

Your MPH will actually be a much better indicator of power than your 1/4 times.

:thumbsup:

Your MPH will actually be a much better indicator of power than your 1/4 times.

Here are all the numbers from last year and yesterday,

Last year, this year
60' - 2.302, 2.421
330' - 6.527, 6.819
1/8 - 10.005, 10.335
MPH - 70.46, 70.18
990 - 13.013, 13.340
1/4 - 15.566, 15.882
MPH - 87.77, 88.01

I also spoke with Steeda.ca today (a Superchips dyno tuner) about a two hour drive from me (in Milton, Ontario, I am in London, Ontario) about getting a tune. I could go in about a week and it would be $150-250 for a custom dyno tune. I think I will go.

Thanks,

David.

i thought with the EE kit u didnt need to go to a bigger MAF cuz u only get a max of 6psi? also do u have the stock alt, and all the stock pulleys? i ask cuz when i went with my 200 amp alt, the stock belt was slippin a bit, then about 1000 miles after the swap got shreaded, and i needed to get a belt that was 1/2" shorter...dunno, but i would kinda be dissappointed as well after spending all that money and getting slower :(. i would also deffinitly swap out those gears, would help a tremendous amount off the line....but hey, if u wanna get rid of the EE kit, i might take it :)

Something else to consider. Not sure exactally how they do the tuning for the EE kit weather they sent you a tuner, or you have to send your EEC to them to get it tuned, but did you ever mention to them the larger tire size? It can effect the tuning somewhat. Judging by your times, I can see exactally where you lost your ground. You aren't getting off the line as well now. I'm guessing your getting more spinning. Try working on getting better traction now and I'm sure those times will decrease. Do you have any type of limited slip in there?

honestly tho, how much power do u gain from 4lbs of boost at low rpm's/launching? would that be enough to make up for the loss of power from the charger taking the power to spin it? i know it will make up for it in the upper rpm range, as u stated 4k and above runs strong, but its probably not enough in the lowend. i was running a 2.4 60', freakin peg legger i got :rant: and all my other times were a little faster than urs with the charger, i was running 15.6 at 88.6 i believe was the speed. is it an auto or stick? when it shifts, how low do the rpms drop? if its a stick at what rpm range are u shifting?
and he does have a LS Could my stock rear end of 3.55 LS really be hurting me that bad?

with the roots type blowers you should see a nice gain in both HP and torque at the bottom end, (my dyno run and weds look about the same line but with different setups). did you leave at the saem RPM and did you spin the tire?

curt

with the roots type blowers you should see a nice gain in both HP and torque at the bottom end, (my dyno run and weds look about the same line but with different setups). did you leave at the saem RPM and did you spin the tire?

curt


I didn't get any tire spinning at all, or just the slightest. I lauched from Idle, 1000, 1500, 2000 and 2500 RPM. The track wasn't busy, I took a number of runs trying to see how RPM's would affect launch.

The tune is for my current tire size. Someone asked about vacum, I will check what it is at idle this afternoon.

How can I check for leaks or belt slippage? How much deflection should there be in the belt?

With regards to the MAF, stock is 70mm, I have a Pro-M 75mm that Doug told me to throw out, and Doug sent me the 80mm mustang MAF. He said the stock 70mm MAF was "pegging" (I think that was what he said) at the top end and the 80mm wouldn't. I was thinking maybe I got a bum MAF and I should just switch back to stock, but I don't know what will happen with the programming.

Anything stoopid I should look for under the hood that could be one of the "opps, should have noticed that" moments, that could account for this thing being a dog?

Thanks,

David.

Something sounds a little goofy, even with 4 pounds of boost you should see a substantial mph increase. It's almost as if you're not getting any boost at all. What kind of bypass does the EE kit have? is it possible that it's stuck open?

Something sounds a little goofy, even with 4 pounds of boost you should see a substantial mph increase. It's almost as if you're not getting any boost at all. What kind of bypass does the EE kit have? is it possible that it's stuck open?

You know, that is a great thought! How do I check?

Here is pic,

http://www.federatedtool.com/david/img/blower.jpg

I assume the black "pod" is the actuator, everything moves freely.

Someone else was asking about vacuum, I get about 17-18 at idle.

David.

Under vacuum, the bypass should be open, if you give the throttle a quick jab, you should see the linkage move. This isn't a guarantee that it's closing all the way, it just shows that everything is hooked up properly on the vacuum side. It looks like under vacuum the diaphram is pulling on the linkage, so when you jab the throttle it should extend.

Did you hook up the linkage or was everything already assembled?

Hey Dave,

I'm not exactly sure of your problems but if you do goto Steeda.ca if you'll let me know who you are talking with there I can send them your SCT file and that will help them out tremendously in your tuning, they'll just have to tweak a few things instead of building a completely new file.

Thanks, Doug.

I'm not exactly sure of your problems but if you do goto Steeda.ca if you'll let me know who you are talking with there I can send them your SCT file and that will help them out tremendously in your tuning, they'll just have to tweak a few things instead of building a completely new file.

Doug,

Can't I can just take the CD you sent me?

Any idea why this is such a dog?

What are the chances it is the MAF? Could that be the problem? Would it be a good idea go back to the stock MAF and try a program for it?

Thanks,

David.

looks killer,sorry to hear it slowed ya down :( .have you talked to the place you got it?
must just be something wrong hiding,good luck getting it
Could my stock rear end of 3.55 LS really be hurting me that bad?
if its the same rear that was in it before then that shouldnt change anything

Any idea why this is such a dog?

Hey Dave,

I'm not exactly sure of your problems

I honestly doubt it's the MAF. In most cases, if it was the MAF, it'd be fine in the lower range, and get screwed up in the upper range. Putting the stock MAF back in will just complicate things even further. Your best bet is to get it on a dyno where they can do some data logging and wideband the thing. That will tell us more than any other this other guessing.

any updates? hopefully u can get it worked out real soon.

any updates? hopefully u can get it worked out real soon.

I have spent a ton of money purchasing the kit and having it installed. I had hoped that things would have gone better. I have exchanged a number of emails with Dave at EE, and he has been very helpful.

The kit installs an intake air temperature on the output side of the blower to measure the actual air temp going into the engine from the blower rather than taking the reading from the MAF (or so this is my understanding). This aids in retarding timing to prevent detonation. I have gone back to using the temp sensor from the Mustang 80mm MAF and things seem better. I was going to take my truck to the track like this to test it out, but Dave said I should not as I may get detonation and trash my engine.

He said to increase how hard I drove it and listen for knock. I have tried this and I have not heard anything yet, although I must say, I am not exactly sure what "knock" sounds like.

Can anyone tell me what detonation or "knock" sounds like?

I think where I am at is that I need to get this thing on a Dyno and get it tuned. Steeda.ca (Milton Ontario, a two hour drive from me) is getting a Mustang Dyno, but it is still anywhere from 6-8 weeks from being up and running. They have access to a Dyno-Jet and they say they can try to get my truck and this kit running the way it should, although without Doug, I don't really know for sure if they will do the job as well as it should be done.

Doug, wanna fly up here?

Thanks everyone for your help,

David.

Hey Dave

Well congrats on gettin the EE kit, I think you're the first Canadian that I've heard of with it.

What does "knock" or detonation sound like, kinda like a little guy in your engine smackin the pistons with a hammer. That metal to metal ping, smack a hammer on a piece of metal you'll know what I mean. Or just a abnormal ticking sound.

Yeah MPW in Milton will tune your truck for you. Thats probably who's going to be tuning my Stang once I get the rest of my parts.

Good luck with your truck. If you need any help at all shoot me a PM or e-mail, maybe i could help since I'm only 10-20 from you.

Did you figure it out? It sounds to me like you just aren't making the power with the new blower. I picked up almost 1.5 sec and 9 mph with 4# and that was right after my tune, before the tune it was only .2 faster. Put the headers and exhaust on and upped the boost to 6# and my et got worse to a 14.2 from a 14.0, all because of the tune. Judging by your mph and et's, your beast just doesn't seem to be running right. Are you still running just that 94 octane NA tune, if so, I would guess there lies your problem. I would get a wideband on it and the datalogger to find out how your fuel/spark curve is looking and make sure that the knock sensor isn't going off. A possibility is that your knock sensor is being falsely triggered by the harmonics and vibrations from that blower sitting right on the motor. Just a thought.
Jesse

the old saying is once you hear the knock the damage is already done

Ok i'm a little late but from what I understand on a primarily stock engine with headers along with a roots style supercharger can significantly affect your low end power. I believe it is very relevant to ranger engines.

Ok i'm a little late but from what I understand on a primarily stock engine with headers along with a roots style supercharger can significantly affect your low end power. I believe it is very relevant to ranger engines.


WHAT?!?

HA! I thought the same thing when I read that! :lol:
I think he posted in the wrong thread. Ya think? :chug:

No I'm talking about the fact that Davefred is lossing all his time in the first half of the track. From what I heard from people like the EE people they don't recomend you run their supercharger with headers because of the significant loss of low end power as apposed to running with stock exhaust manifolds.

Oh, okay, it just sounded really out of whack with the previous post. :dazed:

I will find out if it effects the performance in a negative way or not. I might have my 'before charger' dyno today, if not today some day next week. Then hopefully have the charger on later this month.:)

anything new on this???

sounds like bb in your engine .... mostly under a load or lugging the engine up a steep grade

You've got something crazy going on here..... Did you check the bypass to make sure it's closing all the way???

I put the EE kit on my explorer and we g-tech'd it a few times with a consistent 14.5sec quarter time.... You should be able to get a couples tenths lower as your truck is lighter.....

The MAF shouldn't do much as the EE kit doesnt flow enough to peg it...... I would check your connections at the maf to make sure when the ran the extension to the discharged plate it's all ran right....

I just got back from three weeks in Europe, so nothing has happened on the truck in the last little bit. I ordered 4.10 gears for the rear and I am having them installed on Tuesday. The following week I am taking my Ranger to Steeda.ca in Milton Ontario Canada to have them dyno tune the truck. I hope they are able to get things working and I will finally be into the low 14's.

P.S. I was able to drive ~190 KpH (120 MpH) on the highways in Germany and not get a ticket, in fact, I was still getting passed like I was standing still by AMG BMW's and fancy Benz's.

Sounds good, deffinately update this post when you get it tuned. I'm sure everyone is anxiously awaiting your results.

And just FYI, AMG is a Benz, the BMW have the M powered cars.

And just FYI, AMG is a Benz, the BMW have the M powered cars.

Um, at 250 Kph (150 Mph) it was a little hard to read the logo's on the back of the cars :).

David.

I have not had use of my cruise control since installing the EE kit as it hits the bottom of the hood even with the insulation removed. I was going to cut the bottom of the hood tonight, but I got side tracked. I had my Dad cycle the gas peddle from idle to WOT (engine off) to see how much the throttle cable moved and how much hood liner I needed to remove to allow full travel with the cruise cable on top.

It was then I noticed something very odd.

With no pressing of the gas peddle, the butterfly is closed and resting on the screw. With the gas peddle mashed to the floor, um, there is a 1/4" gap between the two dead stops on the TB where it should be at at WOT.

Holy Crap!

Quickly I log onto RPS and do a search on the title "throttle and cable" in the titles of messages in the 4.0 tech section. Quickly I find this link,

http://www.geocities.com/drewcoffey/Truck/throttle.htm

and set out to do the mod.

I put a big black cable tie on and the throttle body is *almost* hitting the dead stop but not quite. I find a smaller cable tie and add it as well. I have Dad press the gas peddle to the floor a few times and now the throttle body just hits the dead stop when the mashed to the floor.

Wow, what a difference. I always wanted my truck to drop two gears when I hit WOT (or when I thought I was hitting WOT) and jump up into 4-5KRPM and take off, but it only usually dropped down one gear, only sometimes two gears. Now when cruising at 60km and 2K RPM, when I hit the gas, it kicks down two gears, gets up and takes off. I had been getting only 3-3.5 lbs of boost, now I am getting just over 5 lbs of boost at WOT (or what is now WOT)

I might try to take it to the track on Friday night and see how it performs. I am still going to take it for a Dyno tune on Saturday morning.

It is amazing what a huge difference such a small oversight can make.

I will post track times Friday night if I go, and Dyno charts Saturday when I get back from Toronto. I will post as is, then after the tune to see if they can do any better than Doug could by mail (a *very* tough task).

Such a simple thing made such a major difference...

:loltard: hey, at least it was a simple mistake :headbang: now get to the track :)

umm,wow,,umm,LOL!!! good to hear tho.ya half more pedal would help :)

I would think its the fact that you have spent so much money on simple bolt-on mods, but didn't actually tear into the engine. I would try adding a perfomance cam. You can't just try to pump in more air and add a high flow exhaust, when your valves dont open up long enough to let the air in and out. You might want to call camcraft and see what they can do for you. While your at it you might also want to do a good port/polish job on the intake and heads.

I would think its the fact that you have spent so much money on simple bolt-on mods, but didn't actually tear into the engine. I would try adding a perfomance cam. You can't just try to pump in more air and add a high flow exhaust, when your valves dont open up long enough to let the air in and out. You might want to call camcraft and see what they can do for you. While your at it you might also want to do a good port/polish job on the intake and heads.


FWIW 'Almighty One', I keep seeing you telling him to 'get a cam' in your posts - these things have 2 overhead cams and you have to yank the engine to install and set them up properly - not even close to the simplicity of the regular OHV 4.0 cam install. There's also a lot more to a regular 'port and polish' of the heads than is thought - doing it wrong can actually hurt flow.

The whole purpose of this EE kit is to enable people to get a very nice power boost at the rear wheels without having to go into the engine internals, although at a pretty large cost, but it sure beats spending money on add-ons that really don't do much.

Bird

You forgot to tell him the big problem. There are no cams available for the SOHC. :rolleyes:

Well, now you know why they call me "almighty one". If his topic wasn't posted in two different places, I wouldn't have to tell him twice. I know its not easy.

Wed turner- you say there are no cams availible for the SOHC? You can have someone custom grind a cam for it, If you get someone that knows what they're doing.

you have to yank the engine to install and set them up properly - not even close to the simplicity of the regular OHV 4.0 cam install. There's also a lot more to a regular 'port and polish' of the heads than is thought - doing it wrong can actually hurt flow.
If you can't do it right, then pay someone who can.