Hey, I have a 2000 ranger 4.0l ohv enging. Getting a supercharging and planning on running around 4-5 pounds of boost. I was told that it would be wise to get a water/alcohol injection but i'm not exactly sure what it is. So could you guys point me in the right direction. Need to know what is does? Where to get one? Price range? Any info would help.
Thanks,
Craig

p.s. Will be posting pics soon of truck. Have awesome audio/video install and hopefully the supercharger turns out well.

I'm running water and alky setup. Think of it as chemical intercooling. for 4-5 lbs of boost, it's completely un neccessary.... Cools the intake charge and suppresses detonation. Run a small air to air if you want intercooling. Look online, you can buy a premade kit for around 350 or build your own for around 90 bucks.... It's very simple. I'm running a powerstroke air to air intercooler, and the alky injection. I have a race prepped long block, holset turbo etc.... With the large air to air and alky, it'll run 28 lbs of boost on the street all day long on pump gas.

Don't try running an air to air intercooler with a supercharger. Chances are, it won't give you the gains you expect. The water/alcohol setup will give you more gains without the pressure drop you'll experience with the air/air intercooler. Check out this site: http://www.snowperformance.net/ to get more detailed information about water/alcohol injection setups.

for 4-5 lbs of boost, it's completely un neccessary

right on :afro: but you could use it cool your charge and gain a little power.
But generally people cool their air intake charge so that they can run higher psi without detonation. You wont be doing that without a special aplication and some internal changes. Some people do use cooling methods just to get a few more horses, but most weigh the cost and the power gain and decide not to since detonation is not a problem at lower boost levels and the power gains are minimal.

I was told to run it because of the octane fuel i'm going to use. I don't want an all out race truck. I have tool boxes on this truck and use it for plumbing. I would rather run 87 octane (cheaper) and was told to run around 91-93. I heard though if I used a water/alky injection, I could run 87 safely with no problem. Also, I heard that you would use windshield washer fluid as your alcohol/water since it's 30% alcohol and 70% water.

Use, windshield washer fluid is perfect for injection. Also, every time it activates it's literally steam cleaning the motor. It wont be worth it for 4-5 lbs though. A supercharger at 4-5 pounds is BARELY heating the air. You should be able to run regular still but I wouldnt. If you can't afford premium fuel than dont supercharge the truck. It's ONLY like 3-4 bucks more per fillup. People make too much of such a small deal. You're going to spend 300 bucks on a kit if you dont do it yourself and you would make up that price after 100 regular fill ups. I'm only running the injection so I can run more boost. I run the big air to air cooler, the injection and premium fuel. I'm just playing it safe. There is no performance gain to be had from injection. Just lets you run more boost safely.

Summit and jegs also sell kits now

There is no performance gain to be had from injection. Just lets you run more boost safely.

That has got to be the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. So your going to tell me that there's no performance gain from a cooler air charge? That the added "fuel" from the methonal doesn't allow you to run greater timing? Lets not lead this guy the wrong way. What he's saying is exactally right. If he wants to run 87 octane and keep the same performance he'd get out of 93 octane, a water/alcohol injection kit will let him do that. He's got a plan, and it's perfectly obtainable with the parts he wants to use. It may not be yours idea of a great plan, but it is completely functional. And the theories he is applying are absolutely correct. Running a water/alcohol injection setup is basically no different than running an air/air intercooler. The only LARGE difference is that the water/alcohol is a chemical cooler, while the air/air is a mechanical intercooler. Plus with the water/alcohol you get the added bonus of cleaning your engine while you cool the intake charge.

That has got to be the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. So your going to tell me that there's no performance gain from a cooler air charge? That the added "fuel" from the methonal doesn't allow you to run greater timing? Lets not lead this guy the wrong way. What he's saying is exactally right. If he wants to run 87 octane and keep the same performance he'd get out of 93 octane, a water/alcohol injection kit will let him do that. He's got a plan, and it's perfectly obtainable with the parts he wants to use. It may not be yours idea of a great plan, but it is completely functional. And the theories he is applying are absolutely correct. Running a water/alcohol injection setup is basically no different than running an air/air intercooler. The only LARGE difference is that the water/alcohol is a chemical cooler, while the air/air is a mechanical intercooler. Plus with the water/alcohol you get the added bonus of cleaning your engine while you cool the intake charge.

I understand what your saying. I've decided to keep my nose out of this one. Spend your money however you want to spend it. In the end it comes down to what you want and no one from a message board should change your decision. :coolio:

okay, I can't stay out of this. It's in my nature to argue. Wed, I know your truck is blown. How much boost ? And out of curiosity, do you have any way to probe your intake charge ? IAT sensor on a guage or some sort of standalone ?? I'm willing to bet that if you measure the temp from a roots blower at 4 lbs of boost, you would find that it is hardly heating the air at all. And as for the cleaning, thats one of the biggest advantages in my eye, clean valves, ports, pistons, etc.... As for the methanol actually acting as a fuel, it's so diluted, and injected in such a small amount that I hardly think it makes a difference. It's only there to aid in evaporation. At 4 lbs of boost, I can't see any kind of cooler (eccept iced air/water) really cooling the air significantly. You can probably get away with 4 lbs of boost on 87 anyways. I wouldnt, but I'm pretty sure you'd be fine.

I'm getting the supercharger probably put on this weekend and the next thing i'll get will be the water/alky injection. You never know, maybe someday i'll upgrade the boost on the thing.

windshield washer fluid works good?

From what I understand WW fluid works but you can do better by buying a gallon can of methanol from the hardware store and mixing it with distilled water 50/50.

There are several reasons why making your own mix is better but a big reason is you can better control the methanol content of the mix that way, plus you don't have the other additives that are in WW fluid.

Two sites where you can find out a lot of good info are:

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php

http://www.snowperformance.net

i was gonna say i would think the additives in the WW Fluid wouldn't be the greatest for the engine. how much does methanol usually cost? i would mix it myself if anything.i suppose you would need an electric pump to pump the mixture into the throttle body too. I read about a hobbs switch before? It must be a boost/vaccum sensitive switch that activates when the desired amount of boost is attained. does the methanol screw with o2 sensors or anything like that? I got another question..where do you mount the sensor for a boost gauge? Behind the supercharger..?

Not sure on the methanol price but you can buy it as "wood alcohol" or "methyl alcohol" at hardware or paint stores. Another source is HEET which you can get at automotive stores (get the yellow can, not the red).

Yes you will need a pump for spraying the mix...check Brian McKelvey's post for sources for that and hobbs switches.

You are dead on as far as what a hobbs switch is. Simply a switch that is activated by a given amount of air pressure.

As for hooking up that or a boost guage, just run a vacuum line from the switch or the guage/guage map sensor to your vacuum tree. Not sure how you're doing your blower setup but just make sure the lines for either the guage or hobbs switch will be subjected to both vacuum and boost.

okay, I can't stay out of this. It's in my nature to argue. Wed, I know your truck is blown. How much boost ? And out of curiosity, do you have any way to probe your intake charge ? IAT sensor on a guage or some sort of standalone ?? I'm willing to bet that if you measure the temp from a roots blower at 4 lbs of boost, you would find that it is hardly heating the air at all. And as for the cleaning, thats one of the biggest advantages in my eye, clean valves, ports, pistons, etc.... As for the methanol actually acting as a fuel, it's so diluted, and injected in such a small amount that I hardly think it makes a difference. It's only there to aid in evaporation. At 4 lbs of boost, I can't see any kind of cooler (eccept iced air/water) really cooling the air significantly. You can probably get away with 4 lbs of boost on 87 anyways. I wouldnt, but I'm pretty sure you'd be fine.

My intake temps are start at about 160 degrees and go up depending on outside temp. Even when it was below freezing up in Cleveland it would get up to 120 degrees. If I did try to modulate it to 4lbs I wouldn't be suprised to see temps in the 140 degree range. My current setup runs about 10lbs. Most of the heat from my setup comes from the fact that the Vortechs use engine oil to lubricate the headunit.

I'll agree with you on the 4lbs out of a roots charger as far as it not creating much heat. I'd at the VERY least run 89, but if you get someone to tune it, you can run it on whatever gas they tune it for. Also, he neve said he was goign to be using a roots charger.

The biggest thing to keep in mind is that ANYTHING can be done with a good tune. You want to run it on 87, fine, tune it that way. It can be done. But you won't get the performance out of it that you are looking for.

Boost Gauge- Hook it up to the one of the vaccum lines coming of the back of the upper intake manifold on the drivers side. I suggest running a boost/vaccum gauge if it were me.

my turn--
yes windshield washer fuild will work, the blue stuff.. it is 45/65 meth/water. the guys at snow even suggest it.

I have a probe right under the blower, at 4lbs...what i am running as of now there is no temperate change while playing on the road,

curt

yeah i've been looking in to getting the dakota digital vaccum/boost gauge and fuel pressure gauge. i know a guy that can get them pretty cheap for me.

Wed I'm actually surprised to see the temps get that far up.

but 98blownranger what do you mean "I have a probe right under the blower, at 4lbs...what i am running as of now there is no temperate change while playing on the road"

Are you saying that it's not heating the air at all ? I would suspect some heating but not none at all. Wasnt expecting something as hot as 140 degrees, but I dont have a supercharged ranger at all....

I need to get an intake probe myself, but I suspect my turbo outlet temps at 28 lbs of boost are 300+ degrees, I need all the intercooling I can get.

And yeah washer fluid is good stuff, what "other additives" are you talking about ? That can be bad for the motor. It can be NO WORSE volatile than whats in your gasoline. Think about that. It's almost completely water anyways, and it's 50 cents a gallon.... My system is activated by the standalone ecu, with the map sensor, it turns on at 14 lbs of boost

My discharge temp is usually between 140-160 degrees (depending on the ambient at the time). Unless you are running lower octane fuel it shouldn't be necessary to run the methanol to cool your discharge with that amount (4-6#) of boost. That is, if you have your a/f , spark, and spark retarders dialed in correctly (with a "Good" tune). My ACT retarder doesn't start pulling timing until the d/temp reaches the 154 threshold in the table anyways, and it usually doesn't see that temp unless the ambient is at 90 or above or I'm running it pretty hard.

In some areas it's hard to find WW fluid that has something close to a 50/50 water/methanol mix. Not all applications need that much methanol either...buying your own stuff just lets you adjust the mix for your needs. I never said WW fluid wouldn't work. My point is that if it was my motor I would take as many variables and unknowns (i.e., additives) out of the equation by running pure methanol and distilled water and being able to control the mixture ratio precisely, as opposed to being stuck with whatever the WW fluid that is available in my area has in it. In a lot of cases the difference between WW fluid and a home brew mix might not matter, but then again it might, depending on application.

when i ran my turbo with alcohol/water when the boost kicked in the a/f would go to about 10.0 at about 2500 rpm and would level out at about 11.8 .... i had it activated at 6psi .. so it is a fuel enrichment

what were you doing for engine management. Sounds like an air meter issue. Unless you were speed density. It hardly acts like a fuel, not enough to enrich the motor 1.8.... going from 11.8 to 10.0 only from the h2o is bull. That was either in the map or an air meter issue. Do you have a dyno sheet ? Possible data logs ?

what were you doing for engine management. Sounds like an air meter issue. Unless you were speed density. It hardly acts like a fuel, not enough to enrich the motor 1.8.... going from 11.8 to 10.0 only from the h2o is bull. That was either in the map or an air meter issue. Do you have a dyno sheet ? Possible data logs ?

Actually, it'll do that quite easily - the initial hit of water/alcohol will suppress some of the burn, thus causing more unburned fuel in addition to the extra fueling provided by the alcohol. As the revs come up the combustion process does also, thus the raising back up of the a/f. We saw the same thing with my supercharged 4.0 on the dyno down here. Before the injection was turned on, the A/F would come on down to a nice steady 11.8, but after enabling the injection, we saw it drop initially to 10.2 and then climb back up to 11.6 or so.

Bird