I have read most of the posts on E85 and I was wondering since it is a higher octane running fuel mix will this help the pinging. I have ran higher octanes in the past and I have had success helping to get rid of the pinging. I wouldn't mind runnning E85 it is approx 20cents cheaper, to rid the engine of the pings even if I lose some mileage.

A second question; if E85 runs cooler would the temp switch resistor be OK in this application.

i have a flex fuel ranger and it has 70k on it i ran it once and distroyed a spark plug now im rebuilding my top end of my motor i would not suggest to run it!!!

Stop with that! You have to be kidding. You can't believe that running E85 distroyed [sic] a spark plug at 70,000 miles. You are recommended to change your plugs at 75,000. I'm SURE it was a maintenance issue.

It solved the pinging I have always had in the summer. Since you lose some mileage from running E85, you should compute what it costs you per mile. In my area, E85 is more expensive per mile than 87 octane right now.

E85 $2.55/13mpg=$0.196 cents per mile
87 Octane $2.73/17mpg=$0.161 cents per mile

You may find it is cheaper to run a higher octane gas than use E85 at the current prices to solve your knocking. All depends on what the prices are in your area. I'm in Tucson, AZ.

To me, it's worth the extra expense knowing some [explatives removed] fat oil baron isn't getting that money. Since it's a "renewable" source mixed with domestic fuel, I'd just feel better running it, and that would be worth the dip in mileage.

I REALLY want E85 so I can build a straight supercharged corn-burner and really crank up the timing. :E

i have a flex fuel ranger and it has 70k on it i ran it once and distroyed a spark plug now im rebuilding my top end of my motor i would not suggest to run it!!!

:bs: This is absolutely not possible. If your engine is destroyed, it has nothing to do with the use of Ethanol. You are either trying to cause trouble or you don't know what you are talking about.

To me, it's worth the extra expense knowing some [explatives removed] fat oil baron isn't getting that money. Since it's a "renewable" source mixed with domestic fuel, I'd just feel better running it, and that would be worth the dip in mileage.

I 100% agree with that and you don't know where the oil money goes in the middle east. There's no telling how much of it goes into terrorists pockets so that the can kill innocent people and our troops that are over there. Furthermore, the profit from Ethanol stays in our own economy instead of being put into an economy in another country. I truly believe Ethanol and Biodiesel is the answer to our energy problems. It seems to be the answer for Brazil. They started implementing Ethanol back in the early 80's and now most of the country uses Ethanol. As soon as they get a station near me, I'll be using it.

Off politics and back to thread:

rs1000ccs,
The higher octane would reduce the pinging, but I have totally rid my engine of pinging using Lucas fuel treatment. It is (by far) the best stuff I've ever used. It will clean the carbon build-up out of the combustion chamber which will reduce your compression ratio. My opinion is that carbon build-up is a major cause in the pinging in our trucks. They must operate at such a high timing and compression ratio that a little build-up will cause the pinging. In fact, I noticed just last week, that my truck was pinging. I put Lucas on Saturday. I'll see if it goes away. I haven't noticed it yet but I haven't been driving it this week.

It's pissing me off, however, that I now have to pay $2.30 a gallon for E85. There's no reason why it should cost so much. It went up just as much as the gas did in Tucson, AZ, after Katrina hit, which doesn't make any sense, seeing it's at most 15% gasoline.

No kidding, they had there chance to prove its the way to go and ruined it by skyrocketing it. its the exact same as 87 here in Louisville,KY and only one station has it.

I would rather give money to the corn growers in indiana, kansas and out there than some sand monkey out in the middle east. Keep it here!

Theres a gas station near where im workin right now that sells it.Im glad I have the F F as well.I drive so far for work everyday though,not sure if losing miles may be worth it.Funny thing,I DO live in Indiana. :)

Oil companys are selling it through their stations so they jack the price up so you stay with oil. Where they make the big money. As for brizil the goverment mandated laws to run ethenol and was not controled by rich oil companys padding politions pockets. E85 should not be more then $1.90 a gal. I thought of buying a little diesel engine and putting it into a ranger and running used corn oil in it as biodiesel. That way their not dumping it into landfills. That way you are saving money and helping the enviroment

I thought of buying a little diesel engine and putting it into a ranger and running used corn oil in it as biodiesel. That way their not dumping it into landfills. That way you are saving money and helping the enviroment

Ford, built a Diesel Ranger back in the late 80's (84-88 maybe). Anyway good luck on finding one. They are hard to find and the diesel engine wasn't available in an extended cab pickup. Maybe get a fullsize Ford w/ dual tanks and convert it to run Straight Vegetable Oil (SVO). The extra tank would make it easier to convert. They do sell kits to convert Diesel engines to run used Straight Vegetable Oil. They however do run around $800 (from what I have seen).

The bad thing about Straight Vegetable Oil is that it has to be heated to be burned. You have to run Diesel a while to power the heater that heats the SVO up. The viscosity is too high and heating it lowers the viscosity. It is a solution thought. However, I believe Biodiesel is better if its available. I don't own a diesel, so it won't help me, but E85 will.

Wow- I never knew there was a SVO thing going on, how about bacon grease used as fuel...my dad can contribute a few gallons a day for that :)

I agree with not paying all that money that goes to the middle east into their pockets. I believe it is time for america to find better, and more effecient ways of fuel rather than getting it from the middle east and charging everyone almost 3 bucks a gallon when it was like $1.10 a few years ago! I understand some situations, but things like this makes me glad why I dont have my truck out here on base (sucks, but Im saving a shiat load of cash)!

I was just going to buy a deisel engine and set it up for a ranger. All they do is add methenohol to the vegy oil and some other stuff to make it biodeisel. My ranger is a ffv truck and run it from time to time. It just makes me mad about how much they charge for it. When i know it shouldn't be over $2.00 a gallon

You cant run just striaght Veg. oil. there a few more steps that have to be done that just that. it takes about 2 hours to make a load of it. you also have to change fuel line because constent use of it will eat them away.

Watch Dirty Jobs they showed somthing on it too.

Most of the money we're paying for gas isn't going to the Middle East. The reason we pay so much is because of greedy American oil companies. I couldn't care less if the person who's jacking up prices is Middle Eastern or American. Also, the corn they use to make E85 most likely comes from giant comercial farms that help to put small farmers out of buiseness. They suck just as much as the oil companies. The best bet is the vegetable conversion. I saw a thing on television about this hippy commune, and they converted an old VW deisel to take vegtable oil. They would go to resuraunts and the owners would give them all their old oil for free. The conversion costs about $1000 I think.

Most of the money we're paying for gas isn't going to the Middle East. The reason we pay so much is because of greedy American oil companies. I couldn't care less if the person who's jacking up prices is Middle Eastern or American. Also, the corn they use to make E85 most likely comes from giant comercial farms that help to put small farmers out of buiseness. They suck just as much as the oil companies. The best bet is the vegetable conversion. I saw a thing on television about this hippy commune, and they converted an old VW deisel to take vegtable oil. They would go to resuraunts and the owners would give them all their old oil for free. The conversion costs about $1000 I think.

Dude, have you seen the price of oil? $59 a barrel today. It was $70 a barrel a couple of months ago. OPEC cut back on oil production back in the Spring. OPEC represents most of the oil reserves on this planet. Your correct that a lot of our oil doesn't come from the Middle East. Approx. 30% comes from the mid-east. We also import a lot from Africa and South America. However, because OPEC controls most of the worlds oil, they also control the price of oil worldwide.

So yes we are getting screwed by American companies and foreign companies alike. The difference is where the profits go. Theoreticaly (hopefully) American company's profits stay in the American economy. It is my belief as well as many other's belief that the massive profits that go to the middle east (mostly Saudi Arabia) go to support Terrorism. Afterall, where do most of the terrorist originate from? Saudi Arabia. And why do you think that is? Because it is the richest country in the mid-east.

Now it is just my opinion, but if I'm having to pay inflated prices, I'd rather it stay in the American Economy rather than go overseas. Of course this isn't guaranteed, but the more important thing in my opinion is that we become WAY less (if not totally) independent of middle eastern oil. For this reason, it doesn't matter to me whether the Ethanol comes from a small American company or a large American company. Also, as long as corn is needed to produce Ethanol, a small farmer will never be out of business. It's somewhat ignorant to say that we shouldn't use Ethanol because the large companies put the small farmers out of business. What are you doing if you don't use Ethanol? Putting all farmers out of business. By using more Ethanol, a demand is created. There is only so much corn you can grow on a tract of land and when large companies reach growing capacity, they will have to buy from the small farmer. So if anything it would help the small farmer.

Using Vegetable oil is good, but it is a pain in the ass. You have to do quit a bit to convert a vehicle to run on SVO. You have to have an onboard heater to heat the used oil because it is too thick at lower temperatures. To do this you either have to run on diesel fuel for several minutes until the oil is thin enough to burn or heat it with electric heat before you start the engine. There is also the problem of getting it and once you do, it is nasty to deal with. I used to have to dump oil from a restaurant fryer. It is very nasty and stinks as well. It is however a step in the right direction.

The oil-refining industry made around $6-7 billion dollars of PROFIT each QUARTER last year. They are making a disproportionate amount of money compared to the price of oil. As for money staying in the US economy: we operate in a "global economy" now; just because an American company is making money doesn't mean that money is going into the American economy. Even if it is, it's only profiting the deep pockets of the elites. If anything, I would say money would have less of an affect on terrorism. The more money people have, the less desperate they become. The less desperate someone is, the more logically they think. Also, large commercial farming companies in no way serve to benefit family-owned farms. They can produce more food in less time using cheaper production; this causes smaller farms to go out of business. In addition, commercial farms are now lobbying for laws that would make it easier for them to import food. This way they can exploit children living in under-developed countries, and then make even more profit over their production costs. Hopefully with all these foreign born animal diseases going around, there will be less support for these types of practices.

The oil-refining industry made around $6-7 billion dollars of PROFIT each QUARTER last year. They are making a disproportionate amount of money compared to the price of oil.
OK. So using Ethanol doesn't give them money.


As for money staying in the US economy: we operate in a "global economy" now; just because an American company is making money doesn't mean that money is going into the American economy. Even if it is, it's only profiting the deep pockets of the elites.
And where does the money go if "the elites" have it? A lot of it gets spent in this economy. It trickles down into the hands of lower classes until it is spent on fuel or food once again.


If anything, I would say money would have less of an affect on terrorism. The more money people have, the less desperate they become. The less desperate someone is, the more logically they think.
Wrong. Terrorists aren't fueled by desperation. They are fueled by a fanatical religion. They do what they do for the religion they believe in. Not for the fact that they have little money. Suicide bomber's families are compensated when said Suicide Bomber blows himself up. That's not less of an affect. That is an effect.


Also, large commercial farming companies in no way serve to benefit family-owned farms. They can produce more food in less time using cheaper production; this causes smaller farms to go out of business.
The large commercial farming companies do not benefit the small farmers. The demand would benefit them. Didn't you read what I wrote? There is only so much corn that can be produced on a tract of land that these commercial farmers own each season. Once its planted and grown, it has to come from somewhere else. More Corn cannot be grown or grown "faster". A large demand in an industry benefits all. It doesn't kill the small business owner because they will get business from it. I suppose all of the small farmers are against Ethanol?


In addition, commercial farms are now lobbying for laws that would make it easier for them to import food. This way they can exploit children living in under-developed countries, and then make even more profit over their production costs. Hopefully with all these foreign born animal diseases going around, there will be less support for these types of practices.
This is just crazy. You assume that if its gonna come from another country, child labor will be used.


OK. Let me get this straight.
Ethanol is bad because:
-It doesn't put as much money in the pocket of the small farmer as it does the large farmer.
-Buying more oil from the middle east would put more money in the hands of those that are funding terrorism
-The commercial corn farmers will provide jobs in an impoverished part of the world.


Didn't want to turn this into a political thread, but I have read a lot on these things and I consider myself well educated on the subject of Ethanol use.

Here is a couple of good websites to prove my point:

http://www.iags.org/fuelingterror.html

http://www.joinfoil.org/

There's too much to keep listing them:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&q=oil+finances+terrorism

Brazil has been working on energy independence for more than 25 years:
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/10/17/Worldandnation/Ethanol__Is_it_the_an.shtml

So this started as informative, but went way downhill :offtopic:

Ethanol isn't the cure for our energy problems.

It takes more energy to farm and harvest crops than the energy those crops can produce. The reason oil is so great is that once you find it you can pump it continously 24 hours a day until it runs out in that area. The payoff is much higher.

You guys are missing the reason ethanol prices go up when oil prices go up.

What do you think the farmers use to power their combines? You know they don't use horses anymore right?

I don't know enough about Brazil to comment on it but I would imagine if they are surviving solely off ethanol it isn't because they are producing enough in brazil. I'm assuming they are purchasing it, probably from the US.

Ethanol may be a viable alternative fuel source for a short time, but theres no way we would be able to produce enough to subsist on it.


I would really like to see them put some serious cash into the development of solar power. I think that's the long term solution for all of this and it's probably decades off. I think the sun is the only other known energy source that even comes close to that of oil. The sun is basically the holy grail of energy since it's renewable and perfectly clean. We just need to figure out how to harness it.

It takes more energy to farm and harvest crops than the energy those crops can produce.
Incorrect. There is actually a 34% gain in energy thru production of Ethanol.

http://www.mda.state.mn.us/ethanol/balance.html


I don't know enough about Brazil to comment on it but I would imagine if they are surviving solely off ethanol it isn't because they are producing enough in brazil. I'm assuming they are purchasing it, probably from the US.
Incorrect. Brazil produces 100% of the Ethanol they consume from Sugar Cane. In Brazil, the vehicles are smaller and much more efficient. Also, if an engine is optimized to run on Ethanol, it will be more efficient.

Gold 2000, you may know a lot about Ethanol, but you are very ignorant when it comes to how the world operates.

Read a little bit more on Islam and Middle East relations before you start making judgements on others' religion, and do a little research on American companies using foreign labor. I never said Ethanol was bad, I was merely stating it is not the ultimate solution, and as long as American oil companies are running the show, we will never be given a viable alternative.

Read a little bit more on Islam and Middle East relations before you start making judgements on others' religion, and do a little research on American companies using foreign labor. I never said Ethanol was bad, I was merely stating it is not the ultimate solution, and as long as American oil companies are running the show, we will never be given a viable alternative.

When did I make a judgement against any religion?

You can't just assume that because something comes from another country it is produced with child labor. Everyone that imports, doesn't use child labor.

I don't think there is an "ultimate solution". Every energy source has a drawback. Ethanol still pollutes (at a huge reduction) but it has a renewable energy source in the use of corn. Of course we will always need oil for moving parts and for the 15% of gasoline. Solar Technology hasn't advanced to the point (for cars) that it is affordable or space efficient. The Solar Battery surface has to be so large to power a car that the car becomes either to heavy or dangerous because of lift it recieves from moving air.

The good thing about Ethanol and Biodiesel is that it would take a lot less time to implement due to the fact that the vehicles already exist. and only need slight modifications (if any). Biodiesel can be ran in any Diesel vehicle.

Natural forms of energy are as close to optimal as it will get. Solar Energy and Wind Energy still has some development in the future. But Hydro Power is just about maxed out. I have even heard of stations being built to convert wave energy into electrical energy, but I have seen little on it.

BTW: I am not ignorant on how the world operates.

Done, thanks for playing.

This is the 3.0L forum not Macroeconomics or World Policy Debates.

Stay on the topic of E85, it's use and optimization or this thread gets deleted.