Hey guys,
I was wondering is nitrous oxide that you find in say in a doctors office the same that is in my bottle in the truck? Well i know it's medical grade and all. The thing is The company i work for has dozens of 5 foot nitrous oxide cylinders. I was wondering if it is in the same phase as whats i run in the truck.

the reason why I ask is i believe from the instructions with my nitrous kit it said something about a pickup tube beeing at the bottom and pointing down from the NOS label. this makes me think it's in a liquid phase because i don't think that the cylinders at work have a tube that i know are in a gas phase.

i think so, i beleive you can use medical grade nitrous in a car, BUT you cant breathe automotive grade nitrous. the medical grade has been purified for human use, we actually talked about this the other day in class.

If your right this is great..I wonder why they have a pickup tube in the nitrous bottle then? if it is a compressed gas then why the pickup? When my bottle goes empty the next time I will see if i can rig up to fill my bottle off one the the ones in the shop. We used to use nitrous for foster systems but we ave moved away from that and have all these full to half empty bottles. :)

Nitrous for car/truck use is used in a liquid form, hence the reason for the pick up tube, and why most people run purges. Purges vent off the nitrous vapor so you have liquid right at the solenoid. NATE

You can use medical grade, but it's illegal to sell it outside of medical uses. Auto grade nitrous has sulfur dioxide added to it to avoid "huffing".

Simple explanation to the best of my ability... Nitrous is stored as a liquid to be able for it to be used in a common automotive enviroment. It just isn't feasible to have it be in its natural gaseous form. That is the reason for the tube in the bottle, you need the liquid form to be able to transport from the bottle to the solenoid.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head...

Brian

Auto grade nitrous has sulfur dioxide added to it to avoid "huffing".



It also contains Hydrogen Sulfide (H2S) which is why you cant breath car grade nitrous. itll mess your lungs up terribly. This was the main point we got on the other day. We looked at slides of lung tissue from "huffers" who used auto grade nitrous and it rivals that of lifelong smokers. aside from that, H2S above like 2ppb can be smelled easily and it smells like rotten eggs. i dont know why anybody would want to smell/huff it, our teach let out a little spirt in class and it cleared that ****er out. Im sure the SO2 doesnt help neither, that **** stinks as well as being a respiratory irritant. I dont know if actual NOS brand stuff smells like that or not, but it would be kinda cool to find out.

My nitrous dosen't stick atleast not bad enough that it bothers me. I would figure that it would be easier and faster to transport a gas through the lines rather than a liquid. But it now is all starting to make sence.

I'm just guessing that med gas cylinders don't have a pickup tube, as that would be kinda too much to breathe. But you could fill a NOS tank with one. You would probably have to turn it upside down to get the liquid in first. A lot of racers fill their small tanks with the larger ones. With the right hose and adapters, i believe it could be done. You could run a seperate "party" line off the system for the driver.

Nitrous for car/truck use is used in a liquid form, hence the reason for the pick up tube, and why most people run purges. Purges vent off the nitrous vapor so you have liquid right at the solenoid. NATE


you spray n2o GAS into your engine, it's not a liquid. you purge to remove air from the line for consistent blasts not to purge off n20 vapor. there's no liquid going through those lines.


n20 is a liquid when under 745psi of pressure, that's how your bottle is filled and why you need a pump to fill the bottle.

when you heat the bottle to raise the pressure of the bottle up to 1000 or more you turn the liquid into a gas. when you open the bottle you have nothing but gas running through your lines. when you start running low the pressure drops and it can return to a liquid in the bottle and that's probably why the pickup is there.

matt

that is completely oppiste of what i expected. Well i orignially thought that the purge was to remove air from the system. But higher pressure turns into gas? that is the exact oppisite of how other liquid/gas phase changes occur. One of which is nitrogen, and hydrogen.

OK, first off nitrous, whether auto or medical, is all a liquid when compressed (in any type of cylinder). It becomes a gas when released into the air. It is always cold as any compressed gas released is cold (your air conditioner for example). I have been "burnt" by freezing cold liquid nitrous NUMEROUS times dripping from cracked hoses and bottle nipples.

Medical grade n20 and automotive grade are EXACTLY the same except for the sulfer added to the automotive grade (also called "NY-TROUS +") to deter the huffing. You can most certainly use medical grade in you truck (I actually do in my race truck). Don't go advertising that though, cause you can get into trouble about it in some states.

You can fill your small bottle (for your truck) from the larger cylinders (also called "mother" bottles). The easiest way to do it without a pump is to freeze (yes, put it in the freezer) your small bottle, then connect a high pressure (braided line) to the mother bottle from you small bottle and open the valves. Watch it on the scale, and don't overfill it. The pressure (temperature) differences will even out and basically suck the liquid nitrous out of the mother bottle and into the smaller bottle.

A Purge is used to bleed off any air vapors that build up in the line, but more importantly, I use it to bleed off any excess pressure. Bottle pressure is EXTREMLY important if you want your motor to live. That's really what I use the purge for, no more then 1050psi at the starting line.

Let me know if you have any other questions, as I know nitrous pretty good.

being a medical app it most likely uses a gas valve vs a liquid valve which has a tube that goes to the bottom.even under pressure in a tank there still is a gas head at the top.invert supply tank to transfer the liquid contents

Im an HVAC tech, so I know a bit about compressed gasses.

Nitrous is a liquid in the bottle, like most other compressed gasses. It evaporates at an extremely low temperature, so as so as the pressure is released on it, it boils. It's this pressure that causes it to form a liquid. If you only stored gas in your cylinder, you wouldnt have very much charge in there at all! The compressed liquid gives you a much longer running time.

It's the same principle on your cooling system. The pressure in the system is what allows the water not to boil... until you open the radiator cap.

It's all making sense now. I am to freeze the bottle to get that much more into right. I remember the guy at the shop saying he was going to freeze it to get a little more in it.

what if i just hook the tow bottles together with one in the freezer. Is the "mother bottles" at a higher pressure than what i want to run on my bottle? Don't have a guage on my system.

Also why wouldn't you want a higher pressure? Isn't that the whole point of bottle warmers to raise bottle pressure?

The purpose of the freezing the bottle is to create a differential in temp to make the liquid flow out of the mother bottle to your bottle. It's all physics, you have to change the pressures in the bottles to make the liquid flow. The nitrous will want to go to the cold bottle because the nitrous wants to flow to the "better" conditions of the cold bottle.

The reasons for bottle heaters are to regulate the pressure in the bottle for consistent pressure round after round after round. Normally ambient temperatures are less then optimal for the gas. This also eliminates the possiblity of blowing crap up due to flucuations in bottle pressure, ie-excessive lean/rich conditions.

HTH a bit.

Brian

You can fill your small bottle (for your truck) from the larger cylinders (also called "mother" bottles). The easiest way to do it without a pump is to freeze (yes, put it in the freezer) your small bottle, then connect a high pressure (braided line) to the mother bottle from you small bottle and open the valves. Watch it on the scale, and don't overfill it. The pressure (temperature) differences will even out and basically suck the liquid nitrous out of the mother bottle and into the smaller bottle.


How can I over fill it if it is in a liquid form if it's full it's full right? Or is it a compressible liquid? I have a 10lb bottle. So am i supposed to wheigh it empty and add 10 lbs?

Because 10 lb of liquid Nitrous oxide does not completely fill the bottle to the top. There is room to add more, but this extra space is for expansion. LP tanks and any type of gas cylinders are like this. The issue is if you have 11lb in a 10 lb bottle and you put a bottle heater to it that's set at a certain temp/time your pressure will be higher(less space/more stuff) than the bottle allows and will pop off the saftey valve.

I freeze my bottle when I go get it filled and I have a bottle heater that bases heat on pressure, not temperature.


How can I over fill it if it is in a liquid form if it's full it's full right? Or is it a compressible liquid? I have a 10lb bottle. So am i supposed to wheigh it empty and add 10 lbs?

alright so if i add only 10 lbs of weight to my tank i will be ok? Meaning with my tank on the scale it will weight ten pounds more than it did?

No, because you may not have a dry tank unless it's brand new. If you look at your tank it will have dry and full weight numbers. As long as you're not over the full weight you'll be fine. :)

Yes, that "10lb" bottle in your truck holds 10lb of liquid nitrous, but it will accept a tad bit more. This is especially important when you are filling using the "transfer" method. The "Transfer" method is what I said about freezing the smaller bottle.
Using the transfer method, you need 2 different temps on the bottles. The liquid nitrous will flow to the colder bottle. What we do when we need to do that is, freeze the small bottle & heat the mother bottle then connect a line to each and open the valves. The pressure differences (temperatures) will even out between the 2 bottles filling the cold one.
You do need a siphon tube in the mother bottle, but if there isn't one, you can invert it upside down. Usually the 50lb bottles & smaller do not have tubes, but the 75lb bottles do.
What happens to things when they get cold? They contract, right? Now what happens to that same thing when it is warm or hot? It expands, right?
When you freeze that 10lb bottle the liquid nitrous is slightly contracted and after you have over filled it completly to the top, then it is heated or brought back to room temp even, it will expand. If there is no room for it to expand, it has to give somewhere, and it will most likely pop the safety blowoff valve on the side of the valve. Trust me, you don't want to be around if that happens.
I fill all of my bottles using a nitrous liquid pump (filling station) in my enclosed trailer, which uses an air compressor to pump the nitrous from the mother bottle into the 10lb bottles. When using a pump, you don't have to freeze the bottles. I use this method because I use alot of n20 at the track on these long race weekends away from home. A filling station isn't chep ($800-$1200) but it's a neccesity for me when racing all over the country. I carry 6 10lb bottles (full before I leave), and another 75lb mother bottle with filling station, in my trailer at every race.

Now, onto bottle pressure & heaters for your truck when using the nitrous.
To run consistently and more importantly, safely, you need to watch the bottle pressure. I cannot stress enough how important bottle pressure is. If you're too low on pressure, the motor will get too much fuel and run rich (fat). This will cause you to run slow, bog down, blow smoke, and could (in large quantities) wash the rings out of the motor or lift a ring land on the piston.
On the other hand, too much pressure and you will run lean. This will cause you to run slightly faster, but at the expense of your motor. Detonation will occur, and the cylinders will have too much air & not enough fuel raising cylinder temps & pressure. You will burn pistons right through the middle, crack rods, crack the block, blow head gaskets, or burn valves. "Lean is mean", but I have honestly seen more motors hurt by too much fuel then not enough.
It's a very fine line, and bottle pressure is critical.
On the street kits, it's not too bad, and not real harmful if you screw it up as they are smaller hp settings. The street kits are pretty forgiving and designed to allow some flexibility in the tune (n20 tune that is).
I do however, still advise you get a good n20 gauge (not the cheesy little ones on the bottle as they are almost ALWAYS off by 200-400 psi on average). I use a 2 & 5/8" Autometer mounted in plain view in the race truck.
I bring the pressure up to around 1100 or 1150 before I get into the lanes, then when I get up to the line I purge off any excess pressure until I get to my target pressure (on a street kit, 900-950 is safe and optimal).
A bottle heater w/ thermostat is a good investment to keep your bottle in operating range.

There's alot more to a good race n20 tuneup including bottle pressure, fuel pressure, timing, & spark plug temps. These are all critical but the bottle pressure is the most commonly overlooked aspect on a street car.

Let me know if you have any other questions!

Don't know if i can run a bottle heater.. The nitrous bottle is my center consol. I will try it and see. I have 60lb bottles I will invert them and put the one in the freezer. How long does it normally take?