I've noticed that my truck, just starting recently, starts hard, like it has little to no battery.

Recent history of crud:

1. New distributor, runs like crud cause the mechanic didn't finish the job properly, will be fixed soon (bad timing, vacuum leaks and missing galore, can't even keep speed in 5th)

2. Had the alternator removed to get at the distributor. Belt might not be tight enough

3. I can hear the alternator... sort of like a light wirring noise as if maybe the bearings or something are going.

4. Before any of this Distributor business on this last saturday I never had a problem. (possibly ruined the new sparkplugs with all the detonation, rich running and missing?)


Now, for what it does. If i stop and start the truck in a short period of time between start ups, there's no noticeable problem. BUT, when i started it after wrk (Sitting for 9 hours) last night, and when i started it this morning, it turned over slowly as if it didn't have a whole lot of juice.

I've had this sort of problem with other vehicles before, and it's usually an alternator belt that isn't quite tight enough. But I'm open to opinions. Do you guys think this is related to the belt, the new distributor and consequent running problems, or possibly a batter or charging system issue?

Thanks in advance for your input

Put a Volt meter on the battery while the truck is running. It should be at least 13.8V. If it is not, tighten the belt (if it doesn't have a spring tensioner), or take it to AutoZone and have them test the system - it is free, and can be done on the vehicle.

I had a problem kinda like yours. Have your starter tested. Mine failed every test at autozone, and would only start the truck 25% of the time I needed it to. It acted like a near-dead battery, but only cause the starter was pulling way too much juice to not do half the job it should have.



(oh, and BOO!)

Just to let you know my truck is an 88 2.0L. Does't seem to be many people out there with this engine, so I hope someone can help, as this is a generic sort of engine question.

Here's the problem you can be driving along and all of a sudden you'll just lose the engine. Just cuts right out. There's one of those cylinder style ignition coils with the 2 posts on top of it for +ve and -ve connections bolted to the drivers side fender liner. When the engine would cut out, and cranking the engine wouldn't get it going again, I'd pop the hood, get out and play with the 2 wires going to the coil or the coil-to-dist wire and eventually it'd catch again and I'd be a happy traveller. It was really a hit or miss thing.

Sometimes this would happen 5 times in a few minutes. Maybe only once every couple of weeks. Wet weather would usually make it run like arse too, but spraying the elctrical components with WD-40 cleared that up.

The coil looked rusty and old, so I pegged it as being the problem. I tried getting a replacement coil from the parts store, but the teenager behind the counter got the part out of the back and it was nothing like the one in my truck. It was some large cube Ignition coil, not the cylinder style in my truck. Perhaps some previous owner changed it at one point, perhaps there's more than one style of coil for my truck (I've heard supporting rumours). Regardless, the coil they had wasn't the one I had in my truck, and I had a Ford branded wireing harness hooked to the coil, so I decided not to piss with new wireing harnesses.

Regardless, I got a generic Accel cylinder style coil, and I hooked it up and tried to get the thing running. Nothing. It cranks over, the entire truck has power, but no spark going to the dizzy. I put the 'stock' coil back in and nothing. Wont catch whatsoever, but it ran last night.

I took the coil-to-dizzy wire off of the dizzy and I jammed a screwdriver in there while someone cranked the engine, held it close to the frame. Nothing, no spark jumping or anything.

There's a couple of boxes with wires in them in the engine comparment. could be computers or some sort of controllers, I don't know anything about this truck though. There's a lot of wires here and there. I really don't know where or what to start testing to see why the coils aren't getting any spark to the engine. So I was hoping that someone, after reading my incredible novel here, could help me track down some of these electrical gremlins.

The TFI (Thick Film Ignition) module is notorious for this type of stalling / no start problem. I don't know that the TFI is the cause of your particular problem but it is something to consider. To be honest, I'm not sure that your particular year/engine even has a TFI but I think it does.

At one time, Ford was ordered to reimburse owners for TFI repairs but the settlement for the class action suit expired a few years ago. You can read about it here:
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=1216&scid=185

I moved your thread to the 4-cylinder Tech forum where it should get more attention.

You will have an ignition module that controls spark. Inside the distributor there is a pickup coil called a stator. Either one of these will kill spark. The module is located somewhere on the fender. If you are a novice, get a Chilton's, Haynes, Mitchell service manual. You may also be able to get the factory info from www.helmsinc.com or service manual disc off e-bay. joe b

The TFI (Thick Film Ignition) module is notorious for this type of stalling / no start problem. I don't know that the TFI is the cause of your particular problem but it is something to consider. To be honest, I'm not sure that your particular year/engine even has a TFI but I think it does.
The 2.0 engine did not use TFI, Duraspark only. joe b

I believe that the old 2.0Ls were only offered with a carburetor. Therefore, it can't have a TFI module on it due to the fact that the TFI system is part of the EFI setup. This truck features the old Duraspark ignition system I believe. Very inexpensive to replace. But the symptoms you describe a most definitely either a bad coil (pickup or main) or the ignition module. Could always swap the motor for a 2.3L....

So, I've had a long standing problem with my 2.0L 88 Ranger since christmas. It won't start

And for months before that, when it did run, it would randomly cut out at all sorts of crazy times, down the highway, busy traffic, who knows. It'd just lose it's spark and wouldn't restart.

I'd have to pop the hood, get out and piss around with the coil to distributor wire. Wet weather was a nightmare (but some WD-40 took care of that, so I think they're unrelated).

Anyways. One day I decided to change out the ignition coil, thinking it to be the culprit. No dice. Then I started tracing wires looking for broken connections, in the process I found the Ground strap was broken. Still attached to the firewall but not to the engine. So I got a new one and (couldn't find out where it used to bolt to the engine). I bolted it to the top of the intake, under the carb somewhere where I found a bolt).

Hooked up some jumper cables and started cranking. It cranks, but still wont catch, And I can smell gas, so I know it's getting fuel, but no spark.

And then, all of a sudden, it wouldn't stop cranking. Took my foot off the clutch, turned the key off, and took it out of the ignition and it still wouldn't stop cranking. And then end jumper cables started smoking.

Unhooking the jumper cables got it to stop. But not I have nothing, but the key in the ignition and turn it on and I don't even have any power to run the radio. Put a multimeter across the battery terminals and I get 0.2 - 0.4V

Unhook the battery altogether and hook the jumpers directly to the battery leads and they start heating up and smoking again.

So... now that all of that long winded history and crazy car repair is over. Does anyone have an idea of what the hell was causing my no-start/ random cutting out problem. As well as why the engine wouldn't stop cranking and eventually killed itslef?

Oh, and it's been suggested before, but this is not a case of the TFI module that Ford recalled, or whatever that was, cause this is the 2.0L and not the 2.3L.

Any and all help is appreciated, and sorry for the massive post.

My guess on the cut-outs was a bad Duraspark ignition box - had the same thing happen to me before. It would be fine and just cut out at random times. A couple raps on the module would make it go fine again for a week or two, till I finally got fed up and replaced it - no troubles afterwards.

Not sure on your start problem but it sounds like either your starter solenoid got stuck closed or another wire grounded out from the constant cranking which could have heated some parts up too much.

I'm putting a new Duraspark ignition control module in my 2.0L '88 truck, I'm fairly certain it's been the source of many of my problems. So i picked up a Neihoff replacement from the local Crappy Tire.

Before i put it in, I thought I'd ask some opinion questions.

1) in wet weather the spark was arse and much WD-40 was needed to keep it running. Should I relocated the new box to the inside of the cab instead of the drivers side fender well?

2) Should I look into an MSD box instead of this replacement one? I've heard stories about reliability problems with Niehoff parts. (alternativly, should I go to the boneyard and try a unit off another old 2.0L if I could even find one that is).

3) When I tried to get the truck started last time, I blew out the starter solenoid. now when I put the key in the ignition and turn it to the ACC position, I have nothing. No lights, radio, nothing. Fuses are intact.

Since the positive lead of the batter goes directly to the starter solenoid and nowhere else, I'm pretty sure this is the reason I'm not getting any juice. However, is it possible i blew out the ignition switch too? Any way I can tell without replaceing parts and finding out they were okay all along?

The more detailed your responses, the better, cause I'm pretty clueless with electrical issues.

The Duraspark module is completely sealed, so that's not a problem - usually it's the distributor that is susceptible to moisture problems and benefits from WD-40, not the ignition module.

Personally I'd get a heavy duty one from NAPA, instead of a cheapie from the local autoshack. MSD would be a complete waste of money on a 2.0l

Sounds like you blew out a fusible link - you'll have to check the wires that lead away from the solenoid, and splice in a new one when you figure out which one went. A multimeter set to continuity is the best way to check each wire.

Well i Had the same problem. You welded your starter solenoid in the on position, therefore keeping the truck running, then wen you pulled the jumpers form the barttery, your battery proberly shorted, which will now cause you to burn up your starters. throw a multimeter on your battery check for continuity to see if its shorted. Also try jumping your solenoid to check your solenoid , Quickly cross the two big terminals on your solenoid see if the engine will turn.



As for the eratic stalling, could be the duraspark

Alright, so I replaced the starter solenoid, and I replaced the Duraspark unit. The truck now has power, it cranks over, but it still wont spark and get going!

I got my multimeter out and tested some things, but I have to admit I'm not sure of what I'm doing.

So I checked voltage at the ignition coil with the key on, both terminals have +12 volts.

I unplugged the 4-wire plug of the duraspark unit and tested with the -ve of my multimeter to the terminal with the black wire and the positive to one of the other 3 terminals to see what voltage was coming across each. To me the numbers mean nothing, but what did mean something was the fact that I did it with the old unit plugged in and then with the new unit plugged in, and got different numbers between the respective terminals on each unit. I don't know what that means, but it can't be positive.

So anyways, after installing the new duraspark unit I cranked the engine and it just wont catch. Like I said, the coil is getting +12V with the key on, so I took the coil to dist. wire off of the dist. and put a screw driver in the end and held it close to the alternator braket while someone cranked the engine. And I didn't get any spark. Mind you, it's not the best ground cause it's painted, but I thought I had it close to a bare spot.

I put in an accel superstack coil I had laying around and it has 2 terminals on the top, one for + and one for -. Unlike the ford coil which has a red and a green wire (red is labeled Bat and green is labeled Tach Test Signal) Anyways, I hooked the red to the + on the accel coil and the green to the - on the accel coil. Cranked it over and still got no spark.

I tested the resistance on the dist. to coil wire and I got 12 k-ohms (if memory serves me right, I can't remember what I had the scale set to)

And yes, it's getting lots of gas cause it keeps flooding.

So... um... what do I do next, what should I be testing, and how. And what numbers should I be looking for in voltages/resistance... where?

I'm pretty lost, and I'm going through the haynes manual step by step and not finding it to be much help. Utter lack of experience doesn't help either.

Any and all help and advice would be much appreciated, thanks.

Just to keep this from ending up with repetitive questions, I merged all your posts on the related topic into one to make it easier to read the history - you should only start a new thread when it's a completely different issue or question. if it's an on-going problem, keep the original thread going.

Did you replace it with a new Duraspark module, or used? If it's used, do you know that it's a good working module? Do both your new and old module have the same color strain relief?

The unit was a new Niehoff brand unit that I got from the local Canadian Tire store. They're pretty much the main national generic autoparts/harware supplier up here.

The old unit and the new unit don't read the same voltages though. IE with the 2 wire plug hooked up (Power in I think), and the 4 wire plug unhooked, if I test voltage with the -ve of my multimeter on the black wire and the positive of the multimeter on any other wire. IE red and black on the old unit don't read the same as red and black on the new unit. The same is true for the other 2 wire combinations (when I have the key in the on position).

The coil gets +12 volts on both terminals (the red wire with green stripe labelled BAT and the green wire with yellow stripe labelled Tach Test Signal)

I don't know what you mean by colour strain relief. The units look the same and have the same number of wires and the same colour wires. running to 2 plugs. 4-wires into one female plug, and 2 wires into the other female plug.

The only physical difference b/w the 2 units is one is a black Motocraft unit, and the other one is a glavanized steel case cause it's the niehoff replacement part.

I'm puzzled by the fact that I have power in the coil, but when I do the screwdriver test for spark, I get no spark. I suppose there is a chance that I bought a faulty duraspark unit, but I somehow doubt it. How can I test it to see?

If you look at the plastic strain relief on the base of the duraspark module (where the wires come through) they are colored differently for different specific modules. I'm pretty sure the one I had on my '85 (from an older mustang originally) had a blue strain relief, but I've also seen other colors too.

You can have power at the coil, but if the distributor or ignition box isn't triggering a discharge, you won't see a spark.

Here's a basic wiring diagrams for you:
http://www.buildyour4x4.com/BY-Tech/tfi_schematic.jpg

http://www.buildyour4x4.com/BY-Tech/PrestoMotoWiring.gif

Since you had the problem which fried your starter solenoid, I'd check all your fusible links to make sure one of them (or the wires themselves) didn't get burned out when that happened as they aren't meant to carry that much current for that long.

Some more good Duraspark info: -->http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/16/57/cf/0900823d801657cf/repairInfoPages.htm

I was pissing around with the truck this weekend, and I started testing things at the distributor.

I unhooked the wiring harness at the dist. It has 3 wires, a black for ground, and an orange and purple which I'm told both go back to the Duraspark Unit.

While cranking the engine, and measuring with a digital multimeter, I get 0.02V across the orange and purple wires. But nothing across any other combination (20V scale).

While cranking the engine and using an analog Multimeter I get nothing across any of the terminals The needle doesn't budge (regardless of scale used. Yes, the multimeter is functioning)

I went to crappy tire and had the guy behind the counter look up the 'pick up coil' in the distributor (who admitted before I started he didn't know anything about trucks). He couldn't find anything, but looked over his shoulder and found a part called the "stator". I bought it, but didn't install it cause I want to bring it back if I can. Sure enough I get it home, and it's nothing like any part inside of my dist. If you go to www.napaonline.com and look up item# MPEMP711SB that's what it looks like ( http://www.napaonline.com/masterpages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=MPE&PartNumber=MP711SB&Description=Distributor+Stator+(Pick-Up) ). However, that's NOT what I have in my truck... anywhere for that matter.

What I'm assuming is the Stator inside of my Truck is shaped differently and has just the purple and orange wire, with the black going off to a screw for ground.

It might also be worth mentioning that it's telling me that my Ignition coil should look like Item#: MPEIC24SB, yet I have a cylinder style coil just like the one in the picture I put up in the previous post.

Clearly not the right replacement part, unless of course Ford made changes and the stores don't even list the older version. But like I mentioned in an earlier post, this entire distributor from gear to cap is brand new (or at least rebuilt).

HOWEVER, if I want to buy a new distributor off of them, fully assembled and rebuilt, the picture they show (at least) show's the exact same setup as I have in my truck. It can be seen on Item#: NRD482490. ( http://www.napaonline.com/masterpages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=NRD&PartNumber=482490&Description=Distributor+(Electronic+w%2fo+Module)+-+Remfd )

So. With those electrical tests listed above, and the confusion over what "Stator" I'm supposed to have in this truck, what should I be looking at testing/replaceing now.

You could say I'm starting to get a little pissed.

So... any ideas what should I ask the parts counter guy for. Cause 2 parts stores I went to had no idea what I was talking about when I asked them for the pick-up coil.

Hopefully someone can let me in on some secret as to why Ford does the things it does. Or if those digital multimeter vs analogue readings (or lack thereof) means anything.

Not sure I can answer all your questions, but when it comes to the coil shape, it really doesn't matter. The cylindrical coil is the earlier style, while the more exposed looking "square" coil is the newer type. If you have the cylindrical coil with the snap-on wire connector, you won't be able to use the square without cutting off the connector and crimping on new ends.

Unlike the old points style distributors which actually closed the contact and completed a circuit when it was to fire, the electronic distributors just send a pulse as the magnet passes by the coil - not sure if you can easily pick this up with a multimeter. You may need a oscilloscope to see it.

Magnetic pickups, Hall switches and optical sensors all rely on a sharp high/low voltage transition to trigger primary current switching. The sharp transition from positive to negative voltage provided by a magnetic pickup and the falling edge from high to low in a square-wave signal from a Hall switch or an optical sensor do basically the same thing. The signal turns off the bias voltage on the driver transistor and causes the ignition power transistor to interrupt primary current. In fact, most systems with magnetic pickups convert the AC sine wave to a square wave, then use the falling edge of the square wave as the timing signal.

It's possible to connect a digital multimeter to any of the three common distributor pickups and look for some kind of signal activity. However, a DMM will tell you only that something is happening on the signal line. It can't tell you if it's a proper timing signal or if there's sloppy switching. You're much better off getting out the lab scope and looking at the signal waveform closely.

Any sine wave or square wave that doesn't go high enough and low enough can't be recognized by the module or the PCM. This is called signal amplitude, and it must meet certain minimum values. Similarly, a pickup signal that isn't sharp and clean can produce results like old-fashioned point arcing-- the module isn't quite sure when to open the primary circuit, with weak secondary voltage the result. This kind of problem can be caused by a broken trigger wheel tooth or a bent shutter wheel or blade. Your digital lab scope will help you nail these defects.

For this signal to happen the gap between the pickup and the magnet has to be very close (sometimes in the .007" – .010" range), but others aren't even adjustable, so if the gap is too large the distributor or pickup assembly would need to be replaced.

It's possible to have good primary circuit source voltage and timing signals but no spark. You can't overlook the ignition module, so we'll end this review with some basic module tests. One of the simplest is a scratch test with a 12-volt test lamp. Connect the probe lamp to battery voltage and scratch the tip against the pickup coil terminals on the module. With all circuit connections intact, the coil should fire. On many systems you also can hold an AC soldering gun close to the module and pull the trigger. The magnetic field generated by the soldering gun also should cause the coil to fire.