Ok so as per this thread:

http://www.rangerpowersports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=237533

Everything was fine up until last night. Now I'm having the same damn problem. The clutch pedal is just going right to the floor and the gears won't shift.

I went out and bled the clutch again tonight and the pedal stiffened right back up, for now... I even tried the clutch master cylinder bleed trick but that didn't do any good (it did the first time, though).

So, before I go ripping my tranny off and replacing the clutch slave cylinder, how can I be sure that that is absolutely the problem? I am seeing some kind of stain on the bottom of the tranny, which could be brake fluid from me bleeding the clutch, but could it also be brake fluid from a leaky slave cylinder? I've only had this truck for 3 months now and it's an 02, so you can imagine my frustration here.

Any input is appreciated here, gents.

Thanks.

aight well jus all i can say is jus take a look around ur master cylinder and see if its leaking anywhere maybe where the line comes out a rly small crack in the housing and if not i mean the line could be cracked or split but it would have to be a rly small hole for u to still have a petal whyle its leakin down but if u dont have any of that ur lookin at the ony onther thing is ur slave

hope i helped out
drew

On the left side of the bell housing is a little rubber plug. Pull that off, clean up all the crap that is inside there (bottom of bell housing, bottom of slave cylinder), and then drive it for a few days. Pull off the plug and look to see if the slave area is wet, or if the bottom of the bellhousing is wet.

Its the exact problem I'm having, and I just confirmed last night that the slave needs to be replaced (bottom of slave cylinder is wet, and we just cleaned it all up last week). I had my mechanic put it in the last time, but its over a year, so I'll have to do a little negotiating to avoid having to pay for it again...

It almost sounds like you are talking about the bleeder valve for the slave cylinder. Please clarify...

No, sorry if I wasn't clear - below the place where the hydraulic line to the slave enters the bell housing, there is a rubber plug about 1.5" x 2.5" or so that is just an access location. If you pull that off, you can see up into the bell housing and see if there is fluid dripping off the slave (which in my case at the moment there is...) - fluid there suggests pretty strongly that the slave cylinder has a leak.

I'll go under there tomorrow (well, today, I guess) and take a pic of what I see on the tranny. Right now, however, it's just about bedtime...

OOOKKK...... now that I've finally had a chance to look under where you were talking about, rubydist, I am now 100% sure that my slave cylinder has a bad leak.

I had to give my girlfriend a ride to the airport at 4:00 am today. I though, oh, I bled the clutch hydraulics 2 days ago...it's fine for this trip (50 miles one way).

Yeah, right. I get out there this morning and the clutch pedal went STRAIGHT to the floor. No resistance. Not even at the floor.

So while she is SCREAMING bloody murder at me (she over panics), I manage to drive to my house, across town, in 2nd gear. This probably did WONDERS for the clutch.

So I park the poor disabled truck and hop into my spare vehicle, a 1997 Ford Windstar (LMAO). I drive this spare vehicle so rarely that the inspection usually expires in between driving intervals. I do, however, keep it maintained(it's extremely cheap to maintain a vehicle that just sits there, lol).

Anyway, I get her to the airport (with a half hour to spare mind you) and get back home. Then I got some more sleep and sat around for most of the day (I have today off work), then I remembered this thread...

Soooo I get under there and check this access port that rubydist referred me to. Sure enough, there's brake fluid EVERYWHERE! It's stained the bottom of the bell housing, it was seeping out of this access port, and the slave cylinder is soaking wet.

I know now where my problem lies. Now, w/out going into the HUGE fiasco involving what was supposed to be my "Premium Coverage Warranty", let's just say it's no problem at all for me to go about fixing this myself.

Thanks again, rubydist.

haha, how calm (and boring) it would be without women in our lives...

I've got the same 'warranty' problem - mine is just past the 1 year warranty, so we're negotiating how much its going to cost me to fix... Fortunately, mine only leaks intermittently, and so far this week, its not really leaking. We'll see how long that lasts, now that I've written it down publicly...

BTW, get the Ford tob/slave - it comes pre-bled so you just pop it in and go. Then, all you should have to do is the 'tip the master cylinder and let out the air' trick once and you should be good to go.

I wish I had read your post before I went ahead and bought a slave cylinder from Advance Auto. I have a commercial account there so parts are less expensive. I didn't have the $95.99 that Autozone wanted, and I don't have time to wait for Rock Auto to ship, so I bought one for $40.99 from Advance Auto. Let's see how long it lasts....

I'll be attempting this on either Friday or Saturday so lets see how long it takes me to R&R my first 4x4 tranny.

Ok so I thought this was case closed. Not so.

The slave cylinder is indeed the problem, however, do I recall perhaps reading elsewhere on this forum that people have had a hard time removing the bolts from exhaust manifold to downpipe studs??

Well, that very problem has put the kibosh on me replacing the slave cylinder by myself! I have tried everything short of PB Blaster. Those bitches REFUSE to budge! I don't want to snap the stud off so I gave it a rest for tonight.

Any suggestions?

I've never removed the y-pipe to pull any BRV tranny, that includes 2.8s, 2.9, 4.0 and A4LD, M5OD, FM146, FM145 and TK5 trannys. Pulling the y-pipe is a bigger hassle that wiggling the tranny out.

Really? Then how did you get clearance to remove the top tranny bolts?

Reportedly, you can get those top bolts from the top side, if you crawl up on top of the engine...

That's how I've always done it... If they're tight it can be a PITA. I'm not sure how removing the y-pipe makes it easier to get to them...

I think dropping the Y-pipe (or at least disconnecting part of the exhaust) allows you to drop the rear of the engine down to make more room to get them from the bottom.

I think dropping the Y-pipe (or at least disconnecting part of the exhaust) allows you to drop the rear of the engine down to make more room to get them from the bottom.


So you drop the exhaust so you can drop the engine to make more room to drop the exhaust..... Yeah that makes sense.....

I'm starting to wonder if I actually have to take that Y pipe off. I have the drivers side off. The passenger side is being a bitch, but I have the cross member and tranny mount off. Now I just have to get the starter motor off and the tranny. Then I can FINALLY get the slave cylinder replaced and PRAY TO GOD this never happens again.

alright man well im a mechanic for a living and the only way i found to get the damn y pipe off of my truck is soak it with so pb blaster let it sit for about 20 minutes and use a breaker bar or if you have access impact gun. i got all of mine off except one which i have to cut the stud and use a stud puller to get it out later. but im in the same boat as you i get to replace my slave cylinder tomorrow as well not fun at all. its also a good idea if your going to replace the slave you should replace your master too or thats gonna be your next problem.

Ok the master is NOTHING to replace as compared to the slave. I've already had it out twice now and bled it the "generic" way. It helped the first time but the second time it did nothing.

Ok well it's bedtime now but tomorrow, it's slave cylinder R&R or bust.

Ok the master is NOTHING to replace as compared to the slave. I've already had it out twice now and bled it the "generic" way. It helped the first time but the second time it did nothing.

Ok well it's bedtime now but tomorrow, it's slave cylinder R&R or bust.

God bless ya, and good luck...I've been dodging this same bullet since last winter...mine is a very, very slow leak and appears to get worst as the ambient temps reach 32* and lower...in the winter during sub-zero driving,, warming the truck up before driving seems to cause less leakage, October, November, early December driving, I may add a drop or two every week and a half...don't ask me why the temp would have any effect, but it does...I did bleed the slave this last very early spring, and it seemed to help, and also, I found an old style break fluid bottle seal (round waxy type cover under the cap of the bottle) at the bottom of the master reservoir, I assume that wasn't helping issues either....The truck gets very little use during the summer, and when just sitting, it does not leak, it appears leakage is only during pressure to the clutch petal...
I also will obviously R&R the slave eventually...if I can sell the first born, it'll prob go to the shop...
Very good luck to you, man, I've checked mine out and it appears to be a beatch....

Oh it's a biatch alrght but it beats the hell out of paying over $1k to have a greed-filled shop do it.

I figure I've put less than $100 into the job so far.

UPDATE:

Ok I actually got the tranny out WITHOUT dropping the Y pipe! For reference to future readers, It's NOT necessary to drop your exhaust to remove the tranny. I did, however have the bolts off of the drivers side manifold to Y pipe flange, so maybe that gave me just the leeway I needed.

Now all I have to do is replace that slave cylinder and see if I can't line the tranny back up with just my muscles and my newest toys:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95640

and

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=34271


On a side note, the Chilton guide and other guides say to remove the transfer case. Those bolts are in there so damn tight that I said the hell with it and just took the transmission/transfer case out as one unit. This also saves me the hassle of having to put the new gasket one.

I've almost always removed and installed the tranny and t-case as one, you don't need a gasket if you separate them anyways, RTV works just fine. If you notice the tailhousing of the M50D is sealed and there's actually a groove in the flange to let any fluid out anyways.

That's another reason I didn't want to separate the tranny from the transfer case. I didn't want to have fluid spilling down on me from all directions.

Yeah my tranny is still actually kinda stuck there, supported by a jack and half resting on the exhaust. I couldn't give two less ****'s about the exhaust. It's an astronomically easier repair than the slave cylinder.

That's another reason I didn't want to separate the tranny from the transfer case. I didn't want to have fluid spilling down on me from all directions.

The tailhousing is sealed, there is no fluid in it to spill out, if the seal does leak it lets the fluid out using the groove in the tailhousing flange.

OK! I got the slave cylinder out and the clutch, too.

I'm debating replacing pressure plate, however, I don't really have the cash to do so right now.

On a side note, the old slave cylinder was near destroyed. Definitely the problem!

Ok, now I'm off to lunch and then I gotta put this beast back together... :rotfl:

AALLLRRRIIGGHHTTYYYYY THEN!!!

LoL I got her all put back together last night and bled the clutch/did interior cosmetic work as soon as I got home from work today.

The good news is I put everything back together correctly, 1 bolt left over (I'll find where it goes.), and it started and ran perfectly the first time.

The bad news is, the clutch could still use some bleeding. I guess I didn't do it enough with the new slave cylinder in.

The pedal is constant, though. It shifts smooth and I don't have to pump the clutch in order to shift gears.

I think I need a beer now, lol.

Im glad I found this post. Im currently trying to get the tranny out of my 94 B-4000 to replace the clutch and rear main seal. I have 4 of the bolts on the bottom loose but cant reach the top 4. Two of those I can see and the very top two I can feel. Any detailed ides on how to get to those top bolts or what tools to use? Im thinking of raising the rear of the tranny with a jack, maybe that will give a little more room to access those top bolts.
Also can you pull the tranny with the starter attached? Two of those bolts on the starter I cant even touch. Man its tight in there!

I got to the top ones w/ a swivel on the socket and a couple of 12" extensions on the ratchet, from the bottom. Its a pain to loosen them, especially the passenger side ones where I couldn't see the head of the bolt and work the wrench at the same time, but you can get to them from the bottom if you have the right tools. iirc, I had removed the trans crossmember by then, so I could lower the rear of the engine a little.

The starter must come off.

Thanks for the reply Rubydist. I got that starter off, only two bolts. now onto the tranny top bolts, wish me luck.

****.... mine took a **** tonight. on the way home no shifting gears, and push in the clutch and nothing. stays in gear no matter what :( so on a 2WD is it any easier? can i get some pics of how this is done? is the damn thing INSIDE the tranny? its easy as **** on my datsun. its on the outside and i can swap it in under 15 minutes, lol

Its easier on the 2wd only because the trans is much lighter w/o the t-case.

The slave cylinder is inside the bellhousing, so you need to pull the trans off the engine, drop it/turn it enough so you can get in there to remove it. Its held on w/ 2 bolts, and slips right over the input shaft. (Sort of looks like a donut w/ 2 hydraulic lines coming off it.)

I **heart** automatics...




JT

I **heart** automatics...



JT
Because those have a stellar history in RBVs :rolleyes:
I'd rather spend $100 on a slave every 100K than $1000 on a transmission just as often.

No, sorry if I wasn't clear - below the place where the hydraulic line to the slave enters the bell housing, there is a rubber plug about 1.5" x 2.5" or so that is just an access location. If you pull that off, you can see up into the bell housing and see if there is fluid dripping off the slave (which in my case at the moment there is...) - fluid there suggests pretty strongly that the slave cylinder has a leak.

Can you clarify with a picture where this is? I'm having the exact same problem, slave cylinder, clutch, and master all done last year (over a year) and now I have to force it almost to get in gear unless i'm rolling. 1st and Reverse are always the toughest from a standstill and I'm slipping I can tell.

Any advice would be *surely* appreciated and happy t-day.

I can't take a photo tonight, but if you waller yourself under the drivers side of the truck (not the front, but from the side around the front of the drivers door~fairly easy to do on a 4x4), you'll see the rectangular rubber plug near where the hydraulic lines go through the bellhousing. Just pop it out and get your head up there and have a look around w/ a flashlight. You'll see the slave cylinder w/ the lines going into it and the rubber boot. Kind of looks like the accordian rubber boots on old school dirt bikes.

what is everyone paying to have this done? i dont really want to pull my tranny myself unless you think its easy..... i bought the part off of evilbay for 47 shipped....not a bad deal considering it comes with the TO bearing and all....

My mechanic said the book is 6 hours - multiply that by whatever your mechanic charges ($75/hr, in my case) and you know why I decided to do it myself. I figured laying under my truck for ~10 hours was a good investment to save $450 in cash.

I'm having a problem with the clutch not quite fully engaging. That is....the clutch does not quite completely disconnect the engine from the transmission. This makes shifting balky, especially trying to get into first or reverse while stopped.

The problem seems to get worse when the engine gets fully warmed up, as in multi-hours of driving. This has never been a 'dead pedal' problem......just a balky transmission because the clutch is not completely engaging.

It continued to get worse. That is....shifting became balky whether the engine was warmed up or not, and VERY balky when fully warmed up. So, I bled the system. At first it would not bleed so I got an assistant to work the pedal which caused some thick stuff to come out of the slave bleeder. The stuff was like thick silicon grease. I was told this clutch and transmission have been rebuilt. After the thick stuff came out, the system bled normally. It dripped. While I had the assistant available, I pedal-bled it.....then I drip-bled it and buttoned her up. The manual says to drip-bleed it first, so this was reverse-order.

Anyway.....now it's getting balky again. This is a 1997 4L. I hope you guys have some advice and good news for me, but I doubt it. It sounds like these Rangers have a slave cylinder problem often. I would like to have five minutes with the Ford engineer who thought it would be a good idea to put the slave cylinder INSIDE the release bearing. That decision makes this a ten-hour job instead of a twenty-minute job.

Am I missing anything here?

First, if the clutch does not completely disconnect the engine from the trans, then the clutch would be not fully disengaging, rather than engaging....

If you had it bled, and it worked fine, and now a few days or weeks later its acting up again, there is a high probability that it is the slave cylinder, based on our experience here. It could also be the master cylinder, or it could be the connection between the slave cylinder and the master cylinder line, or it could be the bleed screw wasn't tightened properly.

So, my advice would be to bleed it again, make sure the bleed screw is tight, and then carefully wipe out the inside of the bell housing. Then, if you find it acting up again soon, you would be able to look inside there and see if there is brake fluid visible - because you should not be able to see brake fluid dripping off the slave cylinder nor in the bottom of the bell housing.

If you have to buy a new master or slave cylinder, buy the one from Ford - it comes pre-bled so all you do it mount it and drive away - no more screwing around to bleed the system! If you can get a discount from the dealer, it won't cost any more than an aftermarket part. fwiw, I always ask the parts guy "Is that the best price you can give me?" and it almost always comes down, sometimes a lot.

glad to have found this thread.. i have looked for information in the past.. looking forward to doing this sometime this winter in my splash thats been on jackstands for months... waitign for me to re-bag it along with other stuff... :/

First, if the clutch does not completely disconnect the engine from the trans, then the clutch would be not fully disengaging, rather than engaging....

I, and you, have heard this term both ways. Because the clutch's job is to disengage the engine from the transmission there is a tendency to say a clutch "disengages" when it is being used. Respectfully, my preference is to use the same terminology with the clutch that I use with any other component. I engage the 4WD. I engage the brakes. When I engage the clutch, the pressure plate lets go of the friction disk. The alternative (your terminology) means I am engaging the clutch all the time, except when shifting. And it means I use opposite terminology for all other components. Unfortunately, it also means I must clarify my terms each time I discuss it with someone. Which......is the case no matter what terminology you prefer. Again, I respect your decision and I'm not saying you are incorrect, though I tend to see manuals discuss clutch actuation as "engagement."

Okay. It sounds like a failed slave cylinder is a common mode for these vehicles. Before posting here, I did my homework. I'm a little disappointed the engineers elected to place the cylinder INSIDE the release bearing and at the same time, decided to design it poorly enough that it fails fairly often. I just thought that perhaps my specific symptoms might be unique and well-known to you Ranger guys. Hoping to avoid tranny R&R. BTDT. If this were an older Porsche 911 with a clutch that chatters and at the same time mysteriously causes the engine to sharply increase RPM, I would know exactly what the problem is and the fix would take five minutes. Ten with a beer in one hand.:givemebee

A clutch that is transmitting power is engaged. Period. I've never, ever in my 50+ years had someone try to tell me that you engaged a clutch to get it to disengage. Engagement of a clutch is when you are releasing the pedal to get it to transmit power.

However you feel about that, you would be well off to bleed the system, clean out the bell housing, and drive it for a day or a week, until it starts to get soft again. Then look into the bell housing to see if its leaking there or not before you start taking stuff apart.

Again, I respect your terminology decision. I too have 50+ years at the game of life. Enough about semantics and back to the symptoms.

When I was there last, a couple of weeks ago to bleed the system, I opened the viewing port and saw no brake fluid. Further, my symptoms come and go. My clutch rarely acts up, if ever, except after being driven at least to full operating temperature. So.......I still wonder if my situation really falls into the usual failure mode I have heard so much about. As you suggested, I want to be DARNED SURE the problem is in the bellhousing before I launch into another transmission removal procedures. I have done one tranny removal on a 4WD vehicle and don't really want to do another. I have done enough clutch jobs on various vehicles. The thrill is gone.

So.....I am looking for somebody to say "I don't think it's your slave cylinder.....I think it's your ___________." You've made some good suggestions which I appreciate and will follow. I just wish it were a simple fix. But alas....as I'm sure you know, hydraulic systems are not complex or mysterious. If the MC piston moves in a system that doesn't leak and contains no air, the slave cylinder has no choice. Air getting in (possible) or fluid leaking past the piston rubber seals (unlikely) are the most likely.

I did see one intriguing remark in the repair manual I've got. It said something about a pedal bushing. If a bushing broke and fell out, then it's just possible that the pedal is not able to make the MC piston travel quite far enough.

I've removed transmissions to fix clutch problems and then discovered that the problem was not in the bellhousing in the first place. I do not want to repeat that mistake.

OK, if the slave isn't leaking, that reduces the chances that its the slave cylinder dramatically. The master cylinder can go bad w/o leaking, so if no fluid is disappearing its much more likely to be the master. Since the master is not a huge job to change, and your's is likely old anyway, you might just decide to change that one. If you buy the Ford part, it comes pre-bled (new line and all) so you just pop it on and you're done. From what you just posted, there is a good chance that's the real problem.

I don't believe that just having the bushing missing would make it so the pedal doesn't move the master cylinder enough - the bushing has a thin wall, and when the clutch is working right, the clutch is completely disengaged by the time the pedal has travelled half the way to the floor, so 1/8" on the bushing wall shouldn't screw that up.

fwiw, when my slave cylinder was bad earlier this year, it would leak when cold, not when warm. So, after cold nights you would notice the change much more than after warm nights.

Rubydist.... I concur with your "fwiw" statement. Sometimes the clutch pedal resistance is inconsistant in between start-ups. A good majority of the time, it seems to be temperature dependant.

Anyhow, I want to weigh in with my experiences and some #'s. I had my slave go out at 86k. It happened right at start-up, on a morning that was about 10 degrees. I had it towed to the ford dealership. I paid $550 total (tow truck, part, labor).

Master cylinder went out at 172k (lasted almost exactly 2x's as long as the o.e. slave cyl.). It started going bad right around the time when temps. here started to dip down below freezing. I took the truck to the dealership & shelled out $350, if I remember correctly.

The clutch itself finally went out about 2 months ago at 193k~ish. That was the beginning of november & right about the time when temps. started to normalize at or below freezing. That fix ran me around $700-800 at the dealership.

I usually do my own repairs/maintenance... but nothing this major (I don't care what you guys say, I consider this sort of thing "major"). Besides, when it's below freezing.... you won't find my @ss laying on a concrete floor for anything, except changing oil.

my slave/clutch were replaced at 110k miles on my 96 splash.. and the slave needs doe now at 123k due to me welding to close to the hydraulic line formt he master to slave and bursting a hole in it and the feeling that the fluid got to hot and melted the o-rings in the throw-out bearing.. so replacing it all to stop the leak that has gradually gotten worse after putting a few thousand miles on it.

Thanks, guys. The problem is not severe, and rarely if ever occurs unless the vehicle has been driven an hour or more. So.....I'll bide my time. I'll probably start with a MC replace, in the springtime. I have another car project in the queue ahead of that.

$500 seems low for a procedure that involves tranny R&R. $350 seems high for a MC swap but then....I'm not familiar with Ford dealership prices. If the Ford MC is ridiculously spendy, I'm going to wonder if an aftermarket MC will work just as well. But.....if the slave cylinder needs to be swapped out and the cost is only $500, I would seriously consider letting someone else do it. As I've said, the thrill of removing 4WD trannies is gone for me.

Also, I'll look at the bushing. If it's missing, I'll get one in there. I respect and believe your remarks about this not likely being the problem but the MC rod probably does not move very much and the problem, when it appears, feels as if another half-inch of pedal travel would clear it up. In other words, when the problem appears there is usually only a tad bit of drag on the synchros. Usually. Very rarely it will be HARD to get into first or reverse while standing still. It will go, and the gears will not bang, but the shifter takes some muscle to move. When this has happened, the car has been driven for 4+ hours.

FWIW.

Again, I appreciate the input.

I had the same problem with losing my clutch so what i thought was the slave cylinder. i took the trans off and realized there was no leaking anywhere it looked dry, so now im thinking the slaves find.

any other suggestions? maybe the master cylinder?

It sounds like i have the same problem with my slave giving up. I have no clutch whatsoever, resevoir is dry, and as soon as i put any in and gave it a few pumps, it started dripping out of the already wet bottom center of the case. Now earlier, yesterday i heard a little whine i thought "may" have been my clutch and i didn't have time to check it out.

Could that be from the slave leaking fluid into the bellhousing? i was driving for a few hours on teh hwy, not using my clutch, and after about a dozen shifts as soon as i hit lights, the pedal went to the floor.

Other information... when i was pumping the clutch before i noticed the leak, i seem to have a little bit of fluid a few drips, under my feet. I have had a very very slow leak, as in i had to top it up once, about 6 months ago. because it was extremely low and was getting weak, bled it out then and havn't had a problem since.

interested on getting back on the road asap, so if the little leak in the cab is just a slow leaking master, i can replace that later on. but if the main problem is the slave, that is what i need to know.

helpful(?) hint for those of you who don't want to deal with unbolting the exhaust when taking out the transmission:

about a month ago me and my dad spent 2 hours trying to wiggle* out the trans (after having the pedal go to the floor earlier that week) and in a fit of frustration my dad decided to loosen the 6 bolts holding the Ranger's body to the chasis. 15 minutes later the body was jacked 3" higher with more than enough space to yank out the trans.

as far as the bolts go, there were 2 (each) in the back floor, the front floor and between the radiator and the grill. IMO if you can afford to pull up the edges of the upholstery, it's well worth it.


*taking out/realigning a transmission barehand is not fun :[

Haven’t had this happen before with any vehicle – rather odd. After shifting my 2000 Ranger (V6) into first gear and moving forward into an intersection the clutch seemed to disengage. The clutch pedal works normal, feels normal, shifts easily into any gear, but the pickup will not move forward or backward. There are no odd noises, seems simply not engaging power to the rest of the drive train. Any help appreciated.